Misfit Founders
Misfit Founders
Uta Boellinger on Rewiring Mindsets and Empowering Healthy Choices
In this episode, Uta Boellinger, a nutrition expert and wellness advocate, shares her inspiring journey of overcoming health challenges to build a mission-driven practice. Uta dives into the intricacies of nutrition, empowering others to take charge of their health through education and lifestyle changes.
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Well, thank you for joining the Misfit Founders podcast I also really enjoyed. I was trying to figure out. I think I've had a couple of guests that either tweeted or created a story or a reel of coming here before. But I don't get that that much. Usually people post afterwards. Okay, so I've seen your story of coming on Misfit Founders and I found that actually made me feel quite nice because it was a bit of preparation because, oh yes, we're having the podcast today, so it's kind of like, hey, this is happening, oh good, so thank you for posting that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my pleasure and thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1:And you're from? Well, I mean, let me not say brighton, you're. You're living in hove, is it? Yes it's not the same thing as brighton is it? I mean depends on who you ask exactly that's what I mean so I don't know who who I'm asking in this particular case, because I had people that got super offended when I said that they're from brighton. Oh no, I'm from. I'm not from brighton, I'm from hove.
Speaker 2:No, I definitely tell people like, if I'm speaking to someone that isn're from Brighton, oh no, I'm not from Brighton, I'm from Hove. No, I definitely tell people. Like, if I'm speaking to someone that isn't from here, I'll always say I'm from Brighton. But you know, if I'm in London and people ask me where I'm from, I'm going to say I'm from Brighton.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right but of course if. I'm like Hove area.
Speaker 1:Okay, so then you do identify as a Brighton-ier. Let's put it like that Well, yeah, definitely yeah.
Speaker 2:And also my son was born here and he was born at Brighton Hospital, like Sussex County, I think, which is obviously central Brighton, so I always talk about him as a Brightonian.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, Well, let's start with a quick, quick introduction.
Speaker 2:Maybe a couple of words of what is it that you do, what is it that your business or your company does, and then we'll carry on from there. I'm sure I'll have a ton of questions. A Bant registered nutritionist. I run a nutrition clinic and I specialize in women's health and fertility. So I work mostly with women, although I haven't always done that. When I first set up the business, I worked with anyone, just like trying to figure out what I was doing and who I wanted to help, and I think that's a good thing as well to do when you're starting out in the health and wellness business. If you're not 100% sure where you want to start, I think it's definitely fine to you know, spend a year or two figuring that out and sort of. You know I do enjoy helping anyone with their health. I get like immense pleasure from like helping people see good, good results, right, like if someone's not well, if they're struggling with something, and then I can help them feel better.
Speaker 2:That makes me very happy, regardless of who that is. But having said that, definitely over the last couple of years, I've realized that most of my clients are women and I have a special interest and passion for women's health and women's bodies and like, uh, menstrual health and pregnancy and fertility and all of those things that are specific to women. Yeah, um, and so yeah, as a result, that's kind of what I've ended up specializing in.
Speaker 1:Well, that that that's refreshing to hear the part of the fact that you started a lot broader and then kind of lasered into something that you were super interested in, because nowadays the amount of times that I hear people say and you know, baron, in some scenarios that's a good advice, but everyone nowadays says start small niche down from the get-go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the challenge with that is you don't get to explore all the available options and figure out what is it that you like to do. So it's refreshing to me because even when I was working, when I had the company that I ran, I had folk in my team that had no idea what they wanted to do, but they didn't even know what to do in order to figure out what they want to do, if that makes sense. So, and my advice was always to try everything because eventually you you'll figure out. Oh, hold on a second, I actually kind of like this. Oh, I'm actually quite interested in this other thing. So just a small parenthesis there, because you don't see that that that often nowadays, with um professionals being okay. So I started by doing most of this um in industry or initiative or type of work and then niched into something very specific and this might be a very obvious question but why did you decided to um niche into um women's health?
Speaker 2:so I think one, because I mean, the majority of my clients were women anyway. I think women are more likely to approach a nutritionist, I think, just sort of like, if you do a little bit of research into the field, you'll probably find that, like, statistically speaking, men are men, I think. I think are less likely to ask for help when it comes to their health in general, and a really good example of that is that I work with a fertility clinic and, of course, when you're looking at fertility, actually both like partners, nutrition and health has a really big impact, but people will it's more likely to be the woman that will like look at their own health and how they you know their health might be contributing towards maybe, um, not having been able to get pregnant, if that makes sense so so guys are more.
Speaker 2:They have a certain attitude of I'm fine yeah, without wanting to be mean, I think that's the case. I really do think so. And again, of course you know we said this, like earlier when we were talking about something else, where you know, of course you don't want to generalize too much and of course there's always exceptions, but that's, that was my experience. My experience was that it was always the women that approached me, even though so I work with the fertility clinic in Brighton and obviously there's men that go there as well, right, like couples that go there um, but you've got a male female couple and they, like I've never, not once was I approached by a man.
Speaker 2:It was always the woman that would reach out, and nine times out of ten it would be the the woman that would want to sign up for a nutrition program. Sometimes they would then convince their partners to also sign up. So in some ways it just kind of came to me that most of my clients just happened to be women anyway, and so of course that meant that I had more experience than with women and that I felt much more capable of helping them because I had more experience. So it was partially that, but I also think that there was an element of I'm just fascinated by how the female body works. It's so interesting when you really look at it, like when I studied nutrition the first year so I studied for three years and the first year is just biomedicine where you just learn about how the human body works not even anything to do with food yet and we spent like a whole day talking about just the female reproductive system and our hormones, and I was just like, oh my god, but that's also my body, and how come? No one's ever explained that to me before. That's insane.
Speaker 2:So I think I've always had this sort of drive and passion to really educate women on how their bodies work, because they are really complex. Like the female body, with the hormones that come with. The menstrual cycle is incredibly complex and it has a really big role and we just learn about, like at school, you know, we're like maybe like in like biology class you learn about like the period, but you don't really learn about the full menstrual cycle, like the actual, like you know, 28 days and how that impacts your energy levels, your digestion, your appetite, your sleep, your skin, your mood. So all of these hormones obviously don't just impact your ovaries, they also impact everything else in your body and I just find that incredibly fascinating. And then I've also found that over the years I've had just amazing results when I've worked with women. I've had great results with men as well. I've had some male clients who've been amazing and have seen some really good improvements in their health. Um, but with women I've seen those like real transformations. You know where people have come back and gone.
Speaker 2:You've changed my life yeah and I think that's what's led me to then want to specialize in that area more okay.
Speaker 1:So it's for me to understand is um you're very interested in intrigued um about women's um the, the intricacies of of women's health and menstrual um challenges and basically how that affects an individual. You're seeing a lot more I would say a lot better results or better impact positive impact in the client's life with the work that you're applying when it comes to women's health.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And also you don't get that many men in the door because we don't actually think about our health that much as as as women do.
Speaker 2:Basically. Yeah, that's a very good summary.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. But so, with the the part of that makes sense body and so on, how come that got you intrigued and excited about this field? What, what is it? Maybe talk a bit about growing up, school and such. Because, again, like there's, there's a variety of segment of people that enter the workforce and the way people approach in general working and some shy away or get easily scared by complexities. Others get super excited about complexities and want to explore more, have that exploratory approach to things, and I want to kind of like that exploratory approach to things and I want to kind of like figure out where that comes for you yeah, okay, yeah, no interesting one.
Speaker 2:I mean maybe a little bit of background story, I don't know, not so much growing up, but um, I, uh, I'm. I was a very young mom, so I, I was pregnant at 18 and had my son when I was 19 my mom as well, oh okay, that's so cool, oh, that's really interesting.
Speaker 2:Um, which you know, I always say it wasn't planned, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't wanted. There wasn't much planning involved, let's put it that way but he was definitely wanted and, um, obviously, being 18 at that point, I had no idea, like, about nutrition.
Speaker 2:I knew nothing, like my nutrition knowledge was very like basic to non-existent, to probably like just a bunch of misinformation you know, things that I'd maybe learned as a teenager about dieting that I thought were healthy, that probably really weren't, and I wasn't eating very well and you know I was drinking, and you know as a teenager. And so then when I found out I was pregnant, like immediately I was just like, oh my god, you know, I've got to like sort this out and, um, just wanted to make sure that I was like eating really well, to like nourish my baby, right, um, and also then found that my body was really sending me these messages about things to eat, so I had like really cravings for very healthy foods oh really, yes, is that is.
Speaker 1:Is that a normal thing?
Speaker 2:it's a thing. It's definitely a thing.
Speaker 1:I've definitely spoken to other women that I mean I know craving, but healthy cravings yeah, so and even more specific.
Speaker 2:So just to give an example, I had a craving at around um three months, or like 12 weeks of pregnancy. I had a really strong craving for avocado and then I was like why? You know what is going on, why am I obsessed with avocado? And then I read this article about the importance of healthy fats for baby's brain development, particularly around that time of the pregnancy, and I was just like oh my god, my body knows what the baby needs for its development at that particular point in time. That's fascinating, right?
Speaker 1:But was the avocado something that you would eat, enjoy eating and eat often?
Speaker 2:During the pregnancy.
Speaker 1:No, before that.
Speaker 2:No, it wasn't something that I particularly ate. Often I probably like I liked it, but it wasn't like a favorite food before? No, not at all, and it really just came out of nowhere that I had this sort of craving for it. Um, and then when I read about that yeah, that connection with baby's brain development I was just like, okay, that's.
Speaker 2:that's fascinating to me how the human body, the female body, knows what the baby needs for its development and then tells you what to eat when you really listen to it that was the first time in my life that I had an interest in nutrition, and then I didn't actually become a nutritionist until much later, because at that time I didn't even know what nutritionist, I didn't even know that you could do that as a job was there even prevalent back when was this?
Speaker 1:what so?
Speaker 2:20 years ago. Yeah, my son's gonna be 20 this year, so 21 years ago roughly happy birthday.
Speaker 1:That's a. That's a really, really great age to be at right, the young adult, yeah it comes, has its pros and cons.
Speaker 2:No, he's a good kid, I can't complain um so 20 years ago. Yeah, 20 years ago, it's there wasn't a lot of nutritionists around, it wasn't?
Speaker 1:know we didn't have social media.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly that. Yeah, so there wasn't. I just didn't know any nutritionists. I didn't even know that that was a thing, so it's not what I pursued straight away. I actually did a bunch of different things before I became a nutritionist and I was like climbing the corporate ladder and just became a manager in like financial services eventually, and then, at like 32, I decided to go back and study at 32 yeah, and then I set up my business when I graduated three years later.
Speaker 2:So I set up my business for yeah, four years ago four years ago.
Speaker 1:Okay, so so you've had what was it? What does that mean? 16 years in the corporate world, or? How did you start? What was your first job? Because I suppose it wasn't climbing the corporate ladder at 18, 19 20, so I've miscalculated, that's totally fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did a bunch of different things. I did lots of random things. I mean I did some waitressing, then I did. I did actually work in financial services for a bit while I was pregnant and then again once my son was born, then I went and studied journalism, did that, did some work experience, then said I didn't want to do that anymore why?
Speaker 1:what was it that you didn't like about it um?
Speaker 2:I really loved writing and still do, and I still do that now and that's great that I get to combine that skill set now as.
Speaker 2:I write for newspapers, magazines and blog articles for various other companies about nutrition. So I'm really still pleased that I did that. So journalism is a super competitive industry to get into, very badly paid when you first start out and you just really, if you want to do well, you know you're going to have to really commit to it and obviously at the time then my son was like two years old and I just it just wasn't. It didn't make sense to me at the time. I think it would have been really really difficult if I don't want to say impossible, but it would have been very difficult to try and make that work. So I was just like no, this isn't the right thing for me right now. You know I need something that's going to keep a roof over our head and be able to pay the bills. Then I worked in randomly, did a bit of modeling for a couple of years. That's not the most secure area to work in either.
Speaker 1:So I've heard yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was getting a bit old for that. So I've heard yeah, yeah, um, and I was getting a bit old for that, to be fair, at like 21, 22, which I know is insane, but is the reality of the fashion industry wow okay, um, and then I worked um in a supermarket for a bit and then I went into, yeah, back into sort of customer service, financial services, and I did that for 10 years, um, and then worked into sort of middle management and was this all happening in uk?
Speaker 1:I know you um. You told me um on on the way here that um, you're originally from germany. Yes, when did you move to uk?
Speaker 2:yeah, when I was 15 when you were 15. Okay, so all of this happened here, yeah I've never worked in germany, I've never lived there as an adult, so yeah, all in england, it would probably be very awkward for you to work in in germany I really think I think you probably developed your professional um vocabulary in english isn't literally everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. I think I would really struggle to do any like if I think if I move back to germany ever which people always ask me about if I would consider that, then I always say like never, say never, but I'm definitely not planning on it, but I think it would just be like moving2B, saas, software, software development all of it in UK in English, especially that everything in my country, if you would search for something related to software development or how to build a website, everything was in English, not just the tools and the programming languages, but also all of the how to, articles and everything.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't find anything in Romania, and maybe probably now is different, but back then it wasn't. So I've learned a lot of that and nowadays when I go to events and I meet up with someone from Romania, I say are you from Romania? And I say yes, and they start talking to me in Romanian about whatever the topic of the professional topic that we're in, and I'm like I have to awkwardly apologize and say can we switch to English Because I cannot talk inian about this specific topic. I'll sound like I'm like I don't know, like I haven't finished school or or I haven't relatable especially with nutrition, because I studied nutrition here.
Speaker 2:I don't know any of the terminology in german. I really struggle, and so, because my business is mostly online, because I set up during the pandemic, I do sometimes have clients who are german, speaking from like germany, austria yeah, and they try to start when they sign up.
Speaker 2:I always make it very clear that the plan is going to be in english and they need to make I need to make sure that they're okay with that um, because if I try and do it in german, it's going to be very, very difficult, if not impossible, for me to explain myself and still sound like I actually know what I'm talking about do you feel bad when you send them there?
Speaker 1:because I do that when I'm at an event with someone and I have to tell them look, I'm coming from Romania and that's where I'm coming from, but let's talk in english. I feel a bit bad because yeah, not for me, yeah awkward for for them. And yeah, because I'm like maybe they think I'm some I don't know stuck up or something like because I don't want to talk my own, my own language, or right.
Speaker 2:No, I definitely have had that a little bit, because also I don't know like if it's the same in romania, but obviously in germany you've got a lot of american influence right with the music and movies and things like that.
Speaker 2:So I think that there's like people trying to be very trendy by like saying certain things, like using like certain english words and so when I speak german, I use the english words a lot as well, and I don't want to, but I don't want to sound like I'm one of those people, like one of those really pretentious people like. I just genuinely cannot help it, like I just I'm bilingual like it's really hard and I suppose you think in English at this point yeah, definitely, especially when I'm talking about anything like nutrition or health related.
Speaker 1:It's definitely in English yeah, so it's, yeah, it's, it's. It's challenging and I've been. Uh, just the other day I was talking to someone about this, um, someone that's not english is not their first language. We were having a conversation of when we each transition to thinking and dreaming in english. Um, and it, and it was also this awkward period of you're not doing either thinking or dreaming in any of the languages. Clearly it's a mix and such a hard time because it feels like you're losing your identity. You don't think in Romanian anymore, but you don't also fully romanian anymore, but you don't also fully think in english and you mix things very relatable that that was the the hardest transition from a linguistic perspective for me.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, yeah, I can definitely relate. I also have this problem that my best friend is half english, half german. Like she was born in england, like brought up in devon but, her mum's German, so she is also bilingual. So, of course, between the two of us we've basically just made up our own language now, where we just have whole conversations which are like random mix of words partially German, partially English, partially made up, um, so that makes it even worse.
Speaker 2:So now I just feel like when I speak German I just don't even know if I just sound like, if I don't. I'm not even convinced that I sound like a grown-up when I speak German, because also I was so young when I left, so I think my German is also a little bit stuck at the level of a 15 year old at some time.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean the same. Yeah, I left that. I left that 23 or 20 yeah, 23 years old old, Okay, so yeah, you get what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah definitely, and also the fact that you're making up your own vocabulary. How do you even know at one point whether a word exists or you're just saying it out? To someone in German and they look at you like what the hell?
Speaker 2:did you just say the joys of being bilingual. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:But going back to nutrition, so you had a moment of intrigue and curiosity when you were pregnant about the craving and you read about oh wow, your body knows craving. And you read about oh wow, your body knows. But you only went into this field. What?
Speaker 2:Like 12 years later 12 years later?
Speaker 1:um, maybe tell me about that process. Was it a gradual thing where you were reading magazines, articles, stuff on tv and you're getting more and more curious about the topic? Or something happened at one point and you're like, oh, actually I should do more research on this and potentially get into this industry?
Speaker 2:no, pretty much exactly the first thing that you said. So over the years, so once my son was born, I still I kept an interest in nutrition, like his nutrition.
Speaker 2:Actually, right, I wanted to make sure that like I put, made such an effort to like eat healthily while I was pregnant, so obviously I wanted to continue to make an effort with his food um, so I read a lot and, you know, tried to, yeah, educate myself as best as I could on um, just healthy eating in general, like for for kids, but then also as he got older and then, of course, for myself as well, and so I never fully, I never, let go of that.
Speaker 2:So I think it was always a hobby and an interest of mine nutrition and health and I was always really interested in food, like just what it could do to the human body, the impact it could have um on the human body and um, yeah, like, we did see a naturopath once when my son was quite young as well. He had some issues with his digestion and his stomach and um, and that person was amazing and really helped us and gave us like some good nutritional advice as well. Um, that really made quite a big difference. So over the years there was always times where I kind of like these touch points, where I was like maybe more involved with those types of things, um, and just always found it interesting and I was just experimenting a lot on myself as well, like it's not always in a good way. You know, like I tried a lot of crazy diets, like if there was, like some really crazy fad, you name it, I've probably done it.
Speaker 2:So I always had that obsession I would call it an obsession. Maybe at some point, maybe even to a point where it wasn't so healthy, and then it was like I said, I kind of worked my way up, like climbing the corporate ladder. I was doing really well, you know, I had a really secure, really good career, and one day I was just sitting there having my lunch and thinking, okay, I'm doing well here, like this is good, I'm enjoying, like I always enjoyed interacting with people Right. So the people management side of things was great.
Speaker 1:That was definitely for me. What was it that you were doing? What was your role?
Speaker 2:I was managing people. So I was a team leader first and then a manager. So I had, like I started out as a team leader at like maybe 27,. 28 was my first management role and I had maybe like a small team of like 12. And then I had like another team and then eventually went to like the next level and then I had like 100 people.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And I always enjoyed that aspect. I always liked working with people and supporting people with their career and helping them with their professional development and sometimes with their personal things Right. So I knew that I wasn't completely in the wrong place, but I didn't feel passionate about finance in any way, shape or form. I had no interest in it.
Speaker 1:So you were in the financial industry, financial services, yeah.
Speaker 2:So customer service, but like customer service and finance, if that makes sense in the finance industry and I just had zero interest in that, like I couldn't care less about like credit cards or whether people have paid their bill. You know, it's meaningless to me. So I was like how amazing would life actually be. Like I literally sat there eating my lunch and thought I'm doing okay, like I'm happy, but how much better could it be if I was doing something that I actually cared about and then it took me like another year to actually have the guts to go and do it, to actually go and sign up really.
Speaker 1:So what? Why was that? I mean, in a sense, it's kind of like understandable, because you know life happens. You don't take decisions overnight. You also have to kind of like let it bake a bit and uh and such, but. But but I'm curious because I've I've always jumped, like I'm always a bit of a menace because I always jump into stuff a bit too early and I kind of I want to know what made you structure it in such a way that one year later you decided to take the course.
Speaker 2:Um, I think definitely. You know, being a mom, I think that changes you especially. You know, my son was 12 at the time. So going and signing up for like a three-year course is a big commitment time and money wise. So, knowing like it took me like a year to feel confident that I would be able to make that work, um, yeah, so you knew that you had to, so the course required you to not work for those three years no, I was still working and I was studying evenings and weekends but it was more time investment meant that I had like very little yeah very little free time between work and my son, and the course.
Speaker 2:I mean I never I didn't do anything else, I never saw, like I never went out, I never saw any of my friends, like I literally just spent like three years working, studying, spending time with my kid, working, studying, spending time with my kid, and that was it like it was pretty insane three years of of studying, intensively studying it was really insane. To be honest, like I don't, sometimes I look back and like people people ask me how I did it. I'm like I don't know and it's that.
Speaker 1:What does it actually? So you're, you're studying um nutrition. Yeah, what was it? Is it part of a? Um academic thing? Is it um certifications? Is it a program offered so?
Speaker 2:yeah, so it's a diploma course. That's equivalent to a bachelor's degree degree in terms of the work that you're doing. Um, so the first year is biomedicine, which is like the foundation for if you want to do anything health related. You do biomedicine to like just understand how the human body works, right. And then you've got a couple of years of nutrition, where the first year is really like the foundations of basically like which nutrients do what Like? What are all the different vitamins and minerals? What do they do in the body? What are all the different fatty acids? What is protein? How is it structured? Body what are all the different fatty acids? What is, you know, protein? How is it structured? What are all the different amino acids? So that's like very like biology and like chemistry, almost.
Speaker 2:You know you're just learning, learning, learning like all these different things that we find in food and what they do in the human body and why they're important for the human body, and then the final year is putting that all together and actually going right. These are the nutrients that we can use to support people in this way. So, looking at women's health right, like if we get women with menstrual health issues, they can eat these types of foods, or more of these foods, or you know less of this in order to support their hormonal balance. So that's kind of how it's structured. So you've got the biomed understanding how the body works. You've got the nutrition year one, where you're learning about what nutrients they are and what they do in the body, and then you've got the final year where you're just then learning how you can use that knowledge to actually help people improve their health that is a lot of nerding.
Speaker 2:I'll call it nerding. I think that's fair.
Speaker 1:I don't want to sound odd with this, but I'm not educated in these things, and I'm quite surprised at it, because I've had people that I've conversated with that were nutritionists and such, but I was under the impression that this is something that you know, you do online course for nutrition or is it there multiple type of professionals in terms of nutrition?
Speaker 2:No, there definitely are, and it's a really controversial topic. It did, I did, I just poke.
Speaker 1:Something is it. Is it a big? Is it a big thing where some spend a lot more in education versus others just saying that they're nutritionists and actually they've done an online course for, like, for weekend 9.99 or something like that?
Speaker 2:exactly that. So you have people who study for like three years, five years, really understanding how the human body works and how you can use food to help people. And then you've got people who do a weekend course and call themselves a nutritionist because they know what a macronutrient is, and it's just a bit ridiculous because the term nutritionist just isn't protected at all in this country this was I was going going to ask because, like, if, if you think about a doctor, right, you can't call yourself a doctor, a medic or anything like that unless you have education and qualifications.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all of this governing bodies right, and you have to keep up to date with the latest research. So if you are a registered nutritionist, then you have to do that to date with the latest research. So if you are a registered nutritionist, then you have to do that right. So I'm registered with bant, which is the british association for nutrition and lifestyle medicine.
Speaker 2:I have to do like I think it's like 30 hours of continued professional development each year. Um, I have to follow certain guidelines. Uh, yeah, basically have to make sure that what I do is safe and that you know I can help people without doing any harm. And if you just do like a weekend course, I mean anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. You don't even have to do any course. You could call yourself a nutritionist now if you wanted to.
Speaker 2:Just I'm a nutritionist from from now on and then you've got people who call themselves a nutrition coach, right, and it's like, okay, well, at least they're being honest about the fact that they're not a nutritionist but, people don't know the difference, like you wouldn't maybe necessarily know the difference, right, so anybody can do that. Literally, you have to have zero qualifications in order to be able to call yourself a nutritionist so there's no in the industry.
Speaker 1:There's no in the industry there's no differentiation to say like, for example, oh, licensed nutritionist versus unlicensed.
Speaker 2:Yes, there is, but people don't understand. The general public probably don't know, that right.
Speaker 2:So and then you've got even within that. So I'm registered with Bant, so I'm a Bant registered nutritionist, and then you've even got like another sort of governing body and then they're also called registered nutritionists and they maybe I don't know they practice slightly differently to the way that we would and they maybe look down on us and say that we're not, like, properly qualified as well. So it's also a little bit confusing, even within the industry, to be honest, with you and then you've got dietitians, which is a protected term, and you know.
Speaker 2:That's a completely different thing, though, because those are also the people that work in hospitals and that you know. If you had to be like tube fed, like they would check, you know they would be responsible for making sure that you're getting all of the nutrients that you need.
Speaker 1:Like I'm not qualified to do that, right strictly because of that, because um these professionals work in the hospital and helping people in that environment that they're like they can, yeah, work in that it's kind of like that's protected, um, but why not like if, if, why not protect the definition of nutritionist as well?
Speaker 1:is there? Is there any? Did you looked into it? Is there any reason? Why not? Because at the end of the day we're at least for me, it feels like we're heading towards a world where people care more and more about what they put in their bodies.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, nowadays there's so much, so much discussion around, so many products that are coming out and how harmful they are or beneficial they are to your body. If, uh, if me not knowing anything about, um, nutrition, tomorrow I decide I want help. I need help because I have this goal and I want to be healthy and I want to live to 100 years old. And I'm going to go and, you know, I find Joe Schmoe, which has a course done and he calls himself a nutritionist, and all of a sudden, all of the stuff that he tells me is absolutely just garbage and I don't achieve my goals.
Speaker 1:Or, you know, even worse, the stuff that I put in my body and the way I treat my body is not actually the right way to do and be harmful. So that is very surprising to me that there's not at least a distinct, like an official distinction. Say, you can't call yourself um nutritionist or licensed nutritionist. You can only call yourself, and actually you have the obligation to call yourself unlicensed nutritionist if you, you know, want to make that as a business and offer that to people. But at least you have to introduce yourself as an unlicensed, because even that word unlicensed nutritionist if that would be mandatory, I think it would help separate, because I wouldn't go to an unlicensed nutritionist and have them take care of my body no way.
Speaker 2:And you know, I maybe with the, the health coaches and the nutrition coaches like I'm not saying that they can't play a role like if, for example, I don't know if you just wanted some input on because you maybe you want to start going to the gym more, so you want to learn a bit more about what you should eat to fuel your workouts. Probably joe, who's done a weekend course, can help you yeah right.
Speaker 2:But if you are type 2 diabetic or you've got I don't know some other, you've got high blood pressure or you've got some other health condition, then I would definitely not recommend that you go and see someone like that.
Speaker 1:I'd recommend that you come and see me, right, because I know, understand a bit more about how the human body works yeah, but but that that that's what I mean in a sense, right, because you know I've had personal trainers that were, you know, nutritionists as well as in like, but I mean they're what they would help with is oh you know, yeah, here's the grams of protein, fat, this, that to have a balanced meal, and so on, but um, and that's fine, right, like that's absolutely fine I'm.
Speaker 1:You know, diabetes runs in my family. My, my grandma had it, um, my, my dad has it. My grandma died, um, my dad has it, uh, and you know I have symptoms like I get super. Um, I have times where where I get uh, very dizzy and I get that hunger of of sugars and stuff right.
Speaker 1:So then that's that was what my grandma used to suffer with she would get very dizzy and she would need sugar yeah um and so on, like if I would, and when I don't say if I, I think at this point I need to say when I'm going to get a nutritionist to help me with my, with what I put in my body, to make sure that you know I don't wind up making this situation, this condition, even worse. Right, I don't want to go to the guy from the gym and say, hey, how can you help me? Can you help me with, let's say, the sugars, not to be that impactful to my body or whatever that might be. So, yeah, again, I was very surprised by what you said about the fact that it takes.
Speaker 2:It's frustrating, like I'm very surprised, and it is frustrating, yeah, in a situation, in a like situation now, uh, where, like you said, more and more people are interested in learning how to properly fuel their bodies, and it's a very confusing world because there's so much information out there. Right on the one hand, you've got the food industry who are pushing all sorts of things on us, and they've got some amazing marketing going on right.
Speaker 2:that is very, uh, convincing and then on the other hand, you've got the diet industry, who were also pushing all sorts of crazy things um, and some very questionable approaches I mean a lot of them, like being in the into gym.
Speaker 1:I've started my training journey seven years ago, although it doesn't really look like it because I've been skipping a bit recently. But I've had to look into supplements and a bunch of things and the amount of stuff out there that just doesn't do much for you or anything but is marketed as the wonder pills or whatever.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's like solutions, it's just, it's like the wild west, like, honestly it's. It's wild, like the supplement industry is pretty wild, like there's so much stuff out there that you know we don't know anything about, or also a lot of things that make certain claims where you're like, okay, but how much of that is actually in the product? You know, maybe there are good studies that show that this nutrient can support xyz, but how much of that nutrient do you need to consume like what concentration, in order to get?
Speaker 2:an effect and how much is actually in the pill that you're taking?
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly, and that's. That's one of the things that I've, that I've learned, especially with things like um protein, um intake bcaas and um creatine and some of the the stuff that um I usually take for for gym, for performance and so on. Yeah, everyone slaps like there's even energy drinks that right on them, like get your bcaas, um from this energy drink, but but how much?
Speaker 2:yeah is there enough in there that it's really going to have an impact on your body, that's always the question and also one thing that really winds me up with the sports um supplements, because I'm I do crossfit, so I'm really into, yeah, my, my workouts and like, obviously I'm really into, yeah, my workouts and like, obviously I'm really like, because I do that, I'm surrounded by a lot of those like sports supplements or supplements and foods right as well, like the bars, like the protein bars, like aimed at that.
Speaker 2:You know that type of person and I see it a lot and I'm just like the stuff that is in there, like, yeah, maybe it does have protein.
Speaker 1:Protein bar, you mean sugar bar. Have you seen what else is in there like? Have you looked at the?
Speaker 2:ingredients, and does it really need to be like 30 different ingredients, half of them you don't know what they are, and is it either full of sugar or is it full of artificial sweetness, artificial colors, artificial flavors, like things that we know, for example, are really bad for your gut health.
Speaker 2:I've had lots of people, um, like other crossfitters, come to me as a, as a nutritionist, of course, as well and, um, a lot of them have gut issues and skin issues and I'm like, well, let's take you off all of the stuff that you're currently putting in your body, that your body doesn't need yeah that at best it just needs to try and get rid of and at worst might actually be damaging for your gut microbiome and your digestion.
Speaker 2:Might be causing the issues that you're experiencing, and you know, a lot of the time that works yeah, I've.
Speaker 1:I've had a period where I was the beginning of my training where I was super naive of, oh yeah, I can buy this, um, I don't know grenade. Um, oh god yeah, like um I'm saying names here, but I might censor that like protein bar and oh, what's wrong with it? It's healthier than me having a Snickers bar and actually, when you look at it is just as it may not be.
Speaker 2:And also I think the problem is that you know at least if you were eating a Snickers, you would know that that's not healthy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you wouldn't be having three a day? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Whereas if you're eating the protein bar, you're thinking that's healthy. So you're actually fooling yourself into thinking that's healthy and actually, as a result, probably consuming far more of it than you would if it was something that you just know isn't that healthy for you and I think there's always like, I'm a huge, huge believer in like balance, right, so I said to you earlier as well right, like I'm a nutritionist, but I do eat pizza. Like okay and and I think that's important- yeah, it's very important.
Speaker 2:But I'd rather, if I'm gonna eat the pizza or the ice cream, I'm gonna go for whatever I fancy eating. I'm not gonna try and make it a healthy ice cream. Do you know? I mean yeah. I'd rather go for the full fat, full sugar ice cream. I know what it is, I know what it's going to do to my body, but I'm also going to enjoy it. That's fine and I'm going to have it in moderation.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to try boxing it fool myself by having something that says pretends to be healthy, which anyway that's questionable, whether that's really healthy or not. If you're having low fat, you know it probably has. If it's low fat it's usually more sugar. Um, otherwise a taste of nothing. But also even if it, you know, if it basically just markets itself as healthy and then you just end up it doesn't taste the same, you're not enjoying it, so you probably just end up unsatisfied to start with. But also you, you know you might end up then eating more of that than you would have if you'd known that you were eating something that was sugary and, you know, a treat in the first place yeah, no, I I agree with that, mainly because when, when I was training properly now kind of like fell off the wagon in a sense, um, with everything, diet and stuff.
Speaker 1:But when I was training properly and I had a diet, I I was okay saturday, you know, lunch and a bit in the evening at times I had a cheat meal, you know, and I was like, not a cheat meal, it was more like a day of, like a cheat day, or half a day of of, of cheating, um, in a sense. But I knew that the rest of the week I'm eating clean and everything, and even that cheating day I wouldn't just stuff my face for the entire day to wipe out the entire week's progress. But I knew, okay, I'm gonna have the stuff that I like and not, oh, let me have the half fat or skimmed thing, um, instead of the full fat thing that I want to. I want, I really wanted to eat yeah, not completely yeah so that one.
Speaker 1:I can clearly see that this is a topic that you are still super passionate about and talking with passion about. I'm curious how much of your time do you spend on actually doing the thing, as in you're exercising your knowledge and helping people, versus the business side of the business? If you, if you, if you took to put a ratio, even if it's percentage wise, maybe like 70, 70, 30, I want to say roughly.
Speaker 2:I do think like I'm quite fortunate in that, even though I know what you're getting at, because obviously, yes, when I became a nutritionist I didn't think about that I was also going to have to become a marketing expert, a salesperson, um, an, um, an accountant a pr person having to do podcasts and stuff.
Speaker 2:So it's all these things that you don't really realize you're going to be and that every like small business owner or self-employed person will, um, talk about and hopefully laugh about, right. So but I think I am quite fortunate that a lot of what I do, I still manage to like, yeah, do the things that I'm really passionate about and, um, even when I'm like I'm very active on social media but obviously I'm sharing nutrition related things.
Speaker 1:So I would still consider that it's still.
Speaker 2:You're still exercising your interest and your expertise, and so exactly, and even this right, like I'm still talking about yeah, yeah as you said, I'm very passionate about and I just love talking about, anyway, so, um, so yeah, and then, of course, yeah, seeing my one-on-one clients and creating their plans, um, creating sort of other resources that people can access, like my online course and things like that um, so yeah, I don't think I spend too much time and I've also been quite lucky or maybe lucky, but maybe I've been good at like, trying to automate a lot of stuff behind the scenes and also now started to not straight away when I set up my business, but at least the last couple of years like actually hiring an accountant rather than doing that myself.
Speaker 2:So I've started to outsource more of the things that I don't enjoy doing yeah, do you find that difficult?
Speaker 1:the outsourcing bit?
Speaker 2:initially I found it difficult because I found it really hard to let go and also like trust somebody else with my, with my stuff, if that makes sense. Um, I recently um sort of hired someone to help set up Facebook ads for me and that was really strange experience for me. But it was good in a good way.
Speaker 2:But it was really odd, like letting go, giving giving her access to my account and you know my crm system and everything, and like kind of, yeah, just opening up, like letting somebody kind of come in and see everything that you've done, was a quite a weird experience.
Speaker 1:Very strange, I would say for sure I know what you're, um, what you're talking about. I've had to do that quite a few times in the past. And you're, and you're just sat there thinking I know they're judging me, I know they're looking at that campaign or that set, set up and they're thinking, oh my god, what is this person doing here?
Speaker 2:right, yeah, because you don't know like you, know when you. When you knew like you, you teach yourself, so it is probably like, not the best like, and probably not how they would have done it um but luckily, yeah, the person I like, hyatt, was amazing and she was actually really like fantastic, did a great job and also very supportive and in a way that then kind of gave me that reassurance and actually took away a little bit of the imposter syndrome that maybe you know we sometimes get because she was like oh, you know, this is actually very good what you've done here.
Speaker 2:I was like okay I had that recently.
Speaker 1:I've um, I've done um one of my first um projects, for I mean, when this is when this is going to come out, my other business is going to be launched so I can talk about it. Um have a. I'm starting a film production business called Masterwork, kind of focusing on helping brands teach and inspire their audience and through various film pieces and video content pieces, and I recorded the first kind of, I would say, commercial grade, professional grade um project and it was shot by me and I put it, I've handed over to the editors and a couple of people from the industry and they were all very surprised of how, how good it came out for the being the first project that it doesn't seem like it. So I got a couple of compliments like that recently and just make me feel okay, that's it's. It's. It's a change, because I'm coming from a software uh industry where I've never liked coding but other companies that I started, you know, like yourself, I suppose you're not like super passionate about setting ads on Facebook, so you only do it for because you have to right, so I would code because I had to, so every single time.
Speaker 1:The first version of the application that we were launching was built by me because, you know, startup we didn't have any software engineers or anything like that. So I would code the first version, but I didn't like to code engineers or anything like that. So I would code the first version, but, but I didn't like to code, I was just a functional coder, as in, just get me to the end result, however it is. And then I would, we would start hiring and getting people that were actually professionals and actually enjoyed coding and, um, let's just say that they always tried to get rid of my code as quick as possible and made sure to tell me how terrible my code was.
Speaker 1:Oh my God. Well, hey, there's nothing. I can't do anything. I was, you know, I was their employer, their boss, their whatever. I have to put up to it. I can't get offended, of course not. But yeah, so now it's a bit different, when it's actually different, where, oh, I'm passionate about this and I can do stuff a lot better than before. So, yeah, sorry, bit of parenthesis there, but you reminded me of that story so you started hiring more, more people now nowadays to help you with, uh, various things like I hear, like accounting and advertising. Yeah, um, it is it also that you can focus on the nutrition services?
Speaker 2:yeah, because I've just realized, you know, like you do get to a point. I mean, it was so hard, like when I first set up this business. It was so hard teaching myself all of these things. Um, like I did do like my own Facebook ads a few years ago and you know I've somehow so complicated, just like god, like it just takes so much effort and so much energy when you're doing something that you don't particularly enjoy and you're not very good at.
Speaker 2:So even like with the accounting side of things, I can do it myself, like I didn't do it myself for the first couple of years and it's fine like I did it. I think I did an okay job, right, like it's worked out fine. But it was such a relief when I hired the accountant even like the person that I had blessed them. They were like, oh, but you know, you can do this yourself. And I was like no, I know I don't want to exactly like I really don't want to.
Speaker 2:I'd rather pay you to do it for me, because that means I can use my energy on the things that I'm really good at which is helping people improve their health, and that just makes so much more sense to me to do that right. So sometimes I think it's just really nice when you're able to start.
Speaker 1:When you get to that point in your business where you can start to outsource, I think it just feels like quite a yeah, fundamental, like changing, you know, point, um, turning point is the word that I'm looking for in in your business, where you're like oh, I can now really start to focus on the things that I really enjoy and that I am really good at and just put my energy into that um, and I think that's yeah, it's really nice yeah, it is, and I'm even now I'm I'm discovering it again in a different industry where we've done a project not long ago and I had to because I'm the producer on the on these um film projects as well like I would have to go in and call this person for the venue and get these props and hire this kit and so on, and and in two weeks from now I'm going to Texas to shoot something there and I don't have to do that because I have someone that's a production assistant that has dealt with everything like just insurance for traveling internationally, things like quick, short import-export certificates, which I've never knew that you need something like that when you're traveling with a ton of gear Let me not say gear, because I've said gear recently a lot and people think that I'm talking about drugs with a ton of film equipment.
Speaker 1:When you say traveling with gear, this is like traveling with a lot of film equipment. So it is, it is really nice. So, um, yeah, and I'm also surprised that someone told you you could do this yourself. I know kind of like well, but don't you want to make?
Speaker 2:money, exactly right. Um, yeah, exactly that. Yeah, I thought that was quite funny, um, but yeah, I also feel like and I don't know, I'd be curious to hear what you think of this but I almost feel like, in a way though I'm really proud that I did do it myself the first couple of years it does feel a little bit like like a badge of honor, like you're like oh yeah you know what I started this?
Speaker 2:I did this all on my own, like I can really say, like hand on heart. When I started this, I mean obviously I had like a lot of support, in the sense that I had the emotional support from my friends and family.
Speaker 2:I had, you know, people like behind me going, you can do this, which I think is really, really important. So I don't want to discredit that in that sense. Obviously I didn't do it alone, but I did it alone in the sense that I did everything, like all the logistics of it yeah on my own and I taught myself a lot of things that I didn't know.
Speaker 2:I didn't know I would be capable of doing so, in a way, I'm quite happy that I did that, but I'm equally happy that I can now, that I'm now getting to a point where I can kind of start to outsource that a bit more and really focus on the things that I actually enjoy and I'm good at yeah, everyone should experience every single bit of their business in a sense, because I think that helps build you who you are as a founder as well, as well as not having you feel completely like useless or out of the know-how when people talk about certain things.
Speaker 1:You have the experience right, like if someone, if your accountant, comes and talks about this and that you probably know what they're talking about, which is huge right.
Speaker 2:That makes a difference. And also I know that they know what they're doing when they're talking about it, if that makes sense. Like you know, I'm not going to be in a position where someone's going to like rip me off because I have done it myself. So I'm going to notice if they're not doing it properly, if that makes sense as well what is your favorite part of the job that you do? Oh, that's tricky because there's a lot of different aspects of it that I really enjoy.
Speaker 1:You can only choose one, okay.
Speaker 2:If I can only choose one, oh my God, it's really hard.
Speaker 1:Let's say you, you know, overnight your business explodes and you can. You need to hire people to help you with a lot of the components and I'm not only talking about the business side, I'm also talking about the, you know, nutrition service part right. And let's say you only can do one part from now onwards. What would that be?
Speaker 2:wow, that is such a great question. Um, do you know what I think and I'm surprising myself by saying this but I think the one thing that I probably enjoy the most is actually the public speaking.
Speaker 2:So I do as well as the one-on-one clients, I also do like nutrition workshops. So I've done a few at like bigger events where I've been hired to like come in as a speaker and talk about nutrition to an audience, and I've done a few that I've organized myself or where I've done it in collaboration with other, with other businesses, um, like I did a couple last year at soho house, um, and I've done quite a few at the gym that I go to like those types of workshops and like talks.
Speaker 2:I would say if I had to really only pick one, I would probably say that interesting yeah, I'm actually surprising myself, because I had to really think about it, because I'm like, obviously I love my one-on-one clients as well and I get a lot out of it. Like I get when my one-on-one clients like when I work with them, especially when they come back for their follow-up consultations, and they're like oh my god, you know you've changed my life, like, well, we've been trying to get pregnant for three years. Now we're pregnant.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like these are amazing yeah like moments where I do really feel like, wow, I'm so grateful that I get to do this job, so that would also be super hard. So like that would be really hard. Like that's my business, like that's the, that's the. You know, that's who I am, that's what.
Speaker 2:I do but I also really enjoy the speaking to a larger group yeah and so if I had to pick one, I actually probably, I really think I would pick that, but it would be like a really tough choice. I definitely still want to do both, but, um, but I also think there's something about like being on stage and talking to a larger audience where you're just like.
Speaker 1:It just gives you such a buzz I think I would be in the same bucket right now, like if I would be at a, a stage where I'm doing this and I love it, but I'm also doing this other bit initiative that can impact more people at once. I don't know, I kind of feel more attraction to that. It feels more important to me, in a sense, to be able to help more people. That's why I'm doing the podcast I love that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I do. I get such a buzz, like you know. I think the the fear of public speaking is very real, isn't it? Like you do? Like every time I sign up for like a workshop, and then the the night before, like the five minutes before I have to go on stage, I'm just like, oh my god, why did I sign up for this? This is insane. I'm so nervous, right. And then, once I start talking, I'm like, oh no, now I remember why I love this.
Speaker 2:Now I remember why I signed up for it and then you know I do get like I really just enjoy, yeah, talking to a larger audience, like you said, it's just really meaningful because you're helping so many people potentially in in one go. Yeah and also.
Speaker 2:They are kind of like it's almost like you're creating an environment. When you do a nutrition talk or like a health talk, it's like you're getting everyone together as well, like if you get a room full of people who are all interested in one particular area. Let's say, if it was like mental health or sleep or women's health, like different topics that I've talked about in the past. So these are all people that now have a shared interest as well and maybe have a shared problem, and then, as a result, it's almost like it's not just me then. Like now they're also feeling better because they're in a room full of people that they have like a shared problem with and that they can maybe support each other yeah and like one of the workshops that I did.
Speaker 2:It was like a one hour talk and then it ended up being like a one hour q a afterwards as well, because people in the room were just so engaged, so interested, like sharing their own experience as well, which was then, you know, it made it a lot more meaningful if it was just me, sharing my knowledge and my experience and, yes, I can explain how nutrition is linked to whatever your you know health concern is and what you can do. I can give you lots of tips and advice. If, on top of that, then somebody else in the audience goes, I tried that and it really worked for me, right, that's so much more meaningful, impactful than if it's just me, and I think that's why I really, really love the talks, the workshops, the events, like I just I really really enjoy that so much how many of those do you do um, on average per month?
Speaker 2:uh, no, not even, not even per month, like not as many as I would like to. I probably do like, yeah, maybe maybe one every other month or so at the moment, so maybe like a handful a year. Um, so I'd probably I'd love to do more of those actually well, I'm I'm sure that there's a lot of opportunities.
Speaker 1:I think, um, people, people love learning together, and I think that's probably what it sounds like is, in a sense, community building as well is probably something that you'd be super into, and being able to build more conversations and more support nets around this topic outside yourself, in a sense yeah, that's, that's really interesting. Well, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of other opportunities out there for you to do that.
Speaker 2:I really hope so. I think there will be and, yeah, I'm really excited about that. Um, that aspect of it, um, yeah, no, it's great, and I think that's one of the reasons I'm so active on social media as well because in a way, I consider that you know my community like my followers like.
Speaker 2:These are people that are there to learn and are interested in how the how the body works and how you can use food to improve your health and well-being, and, um, and so that's something that I've uh. Interestingly, like, I wasn't on social media at all before I, um, started my business. I didn't even have an instagram account. I had zero idea what I was doing. So, like four years ago, five, maybe five years ago now, like because I think I started the account before I graduated, but only just like I had no idea what I was doing I was literally like a grandma on Instagram.
Speaker 1:I'm still like a grandma on Instagram.
Speaker 2:I was like posting posting like things that you know, duplicating posts and stuff, like and my friend was just like what are you doing? And now here I am, like you know, four years later, and I think I know what I'm doing, I think I figured it out, like, and I really enjoy that, I really do um, yeah, I enjoy that area as well well, you need to teach me as well, because I've been doing this for a while and I still haven't figured out what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:I still feel like I'm happy too. I'm doing it for the sake of it, because people keep on telling me no, you need to do social media, I'm like. But I'm sorry, it's such against my way of thinking of and acting and stuff to post things. Yeah, I still haven't figured it out. I still feel like a grandpa, that's you.
Speaker 2:And then funny because right, because you started the conversation by us by saying oh, it was nice that you posted that on my like. I posted on my story about coming here today, right, and to me that was just such a natural thing to do because I'm like yeah oh, of course, people are gonna want to know that I'm going to this podcast. It's a really cool thing to do.
Speaker 1:I'm really happy to share that, right, yeah and you see, these are the things that I don't have a sense of, like the amount of cool stuff that I've done gone to events, met this person. That person never captured anything and never shared anything. Oh, you've met that person when you were at an event together. Why did you not take a selfie or something? Oh yeah, that's right. Why did I not do that?
Speaker 2:I love that. Well, the plus side is you will never be that annoying person that makes everyone not start eating until they've taken a picture of the food. Oh yeah, definitely you will never be that annoying person that's like in the way because they're taking a selfie. So you know, everything has pros and cons.
Speaker 2:They're you yes, and I hate it, like that is something that I'm actually like. That's a part of social media that I don't enjoy, because I'm like if I'm on my own and I'm just taking a picture of myself in my office or whatever like, or my breakfast, you know, that's fine. Like, because I'm not, it's just me, I'm not getting in anyone's way. But if I'm like I don't know in the past where I've done like collaborations with people and then I've had to take like videos and pictures at events and stuff, and I'm just like, oh god, like I hate being that person and I'm just like.
Speaker 1:I'm just there, I'm like taking videos and like apologizing to everyone around me and I'm like I'm sorry no, you know, I think the rest of us that are a bit more um grandmas and grandpas of social media should actually be more accommodating, I would say because, like right now, I'm so used to it because I've had um a few guests that are quite active on social media and taking selfies with, with the studio and taking pictures and so on, so I got used to it. At the beginning it was a bit awkward. I was like, can I take a picture?
Speaker 1:like sure, let me get out of your way and stuff and now I feel that I'm a, I'm a bit better like I don, I don't like, it's just normal. Yeah, but in a sense, I think you shouldn't feel bad about it. Right, there should be more people, should be more accommodating as well, because we do live in the world of social media, where this should be normal and, you know, if we can share more moments outside the comfort of our own world and environment and not feel like we're being judged because, hey, I'm taking a selfie and obnoxious and you know, do your TikTok dances and elbowing people and stuff.
Speaker 2:But yeah, like ruining a special moment because you had to take a picture of it. I try not to do that, but you know that annoys me when other people do that as well. So I think, yeah, it's about. It's about balance, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It is yeah, but I think it needs to be balanced on both ends, right, um? So yeah, take as many pictures as you want. I can be in some of them.
Speaker 2:Let's get a selfie. I need to get a selfie with this one, yes, but just um word of caution.
Speaker 1:I'm really bad in pictures. Like I can't, like I don't know how to be in pictures. People think, oh well, you have a podcast, video podcast and you're on camera all the time you must. You must be very photogenic or know how to sit for or stand for a picture. I don't, I just like look very awkwardly practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does. Yeah, it's not something that I don't think comes naturally to most people, I think it just it really. Yeah, it's not something that I don't think comes naturally to most people, I think it just it really is practice I'm not that much media trained and I was.
Speaker 1:I'm looking at um, coming from the atlassian ecosystem, and um, the founders and other people that are influencers and big names in that space. Whenever there's, they have these yearly events like summits for a week where there's a lot of things happening expos, talks and so on and when they walk the expo floor and everyone oh, this person can I take a picture with you like they just on command right Smile and it looks genuine smile and everything, and I'm like sat there thinking how do you do it? Because I wouldn't probably be able to. So I'm not that PR and media trained, to be honest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you know what? So you know how? I said earlier that I started the business in my 30s, like, yeah, I started studying at 32 and then set up the business at 35. Or, yeah, 35. And then basically, anyway, sorry, what I'm trying to say is that everything that I did, many of the things that I did up until that point, have really helped me, and I think that's a really important thing for people to be aware of as well.
Speaker 2:That you know, just because, if you haven't figured out what you want to do yet, still like put your heart into whatever it is that you're doing at the moment, because a lot of the things that I did prior to becoming a nutritionist and setting up my business have been so helpful, so you know how I mentioned earlier that I studied journalism. Well, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's an amazing skill set that I have now that I can now utilize writing articles about nutrition for newspapers, magazines, blogs, etc. Oh, yeah, I did a bit of modeling not very long, but enough that I know how to pose for a picture and has helped me with, like my social media and PR stuff. Right that I've done for my business. Um, so you know those types of things.
Speaker 2:And then working as a manager has helped me in, you know, managing my business, like organizing myself, like understanding how things work and even like working in financial services, even though I wasn't passionate about gave me a bit of an understanding of how to use excel and like helped me do my you know accounts before I was able to hire somebody for that. So I really really feel like every single thing that I did almost like led up, led me to this point. It's almost like that was all preparation for what I do now, including, you know, the little bit of modeling that I did that and helped me with, like learning how to pose for a picture. Like I said, I don't think that's something that people just know. I think that's something that you learn. Um, and yeah, I did do some public speaking before, like when I was a manager as well.
Speaker 2:I would like speak at the town halls and things like that uh to to the employees, to the staff, like talk about quarterly results and other boring things but I mean, does these things put together make you for a more well-rounded founder and entrepreneur?
Speaker 1:Because you have all of these experiences in different areas that actually make up for structured founder?
Speaker 2:Exactly that right I really genuinely think I've been so fortunate with every single thing that I've done in my life before this point, before I set up this business. It's been so helpful, like I've learned so much. It's been like such a useful skill set. Every single thing, every person that I've met like everyone's kind of taught me something, and I have seen a lot of people, like a lot of the people that studied with me, unfortunately didn't succeed in setting up a business and becoming, you know, a nutritionist, because maybe they didn't have that experience yeah, I mean imagine, try.
Speaker 1:I mean I always say you don't try to say what if and so on, but in this, in this scenario, might actually be a good example. Imagine you starting your nutrition path in your business, say 12 years ago, before all of your work experience. I mean there is a chance that you might have thought, well, I'm not cut off for this, dropped it and never done um nutrition work again.
Speaker 2:That easily could have happened. Yeah, I completely agree. So in a way, I'm really pleased that I didn't do this until I was, yeah, in my 30s and I think that's one of the things that you know.
Speaker 1:Some the the amount of founders that I to they were, in a sense, a bit ashamed to say that they were in their 30s or 40s and it's like, yeah, I started late, but I'm like, no, but you probably done the right thing here Because you know there's this, this expectation to you know, be an entrepreneur and start your business in your 20s and carry it through and grow it and but I mean, you'll be doing so many mistakes and going through so many issues when you're in your early 20s when you don't have you have zero experience when it comes to anything professional world anything, or people, or people yeah, not not necessarily professional, but people in general right and and that's so interesting that you say that, that some people feel that way like I've never felt that way.
Speaker 2:I've always felt the other way around. I've always felt like, no, this is how it was meant to be. Like you know, this is like everything I've done has led me to this point. Without wanting to sound like really, you know, spiritual, like I really feel that way. I really feel like this was the right, exact time in my life to do this. I don't think if I'd done it before, I wouldn't have been as successful with it, I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. I don't think I would have been able to pull it off.
Speaker 1:To be honest, yeah, yeah, you know, and and I had to learn that the heart, because I started my first businesses, my first business when I was 17 and pretty amazing, by the way.
Speaker 2:Like that's also very impressive, was it? I mean, I can imagine it was a bit of a mess it was pretty much I had to.
Speaker 1:I've had to crash and burn and then crash and burn a couple more times until when I was 28. I decided to get a job and then go through the work experience that I had over five years to then start check so, which had a successful exit, right. But but you know, I could have potentially saved my pain and suffering of my early 20s to late 20s and not have tried to become an entrepreneur and fail constantly and actually get a couple of jobs, learn as much as possible and then still start my business at 30, 30 and then 30. No wait, was I 30? Yeah, I was, I was. I was 31 when I started, 37 now and sold a couple like two years ago, like two years ago. But I mean, and when I, when I started this business, I was a bit like I'm 30, um, you know, like you were talking about models in 22, 21, it's like you're too old. I felt too old at 30 to to start a startup and and get into that and I felt that I already failed so many times before.
Speaker 2:That's really interesting. But, oh my God, well done, like, for the resilience and the tenacity to like, stick with it and try again. That's so good that you did that, Really impressive.
Speaker 1:But that's why I'm doing Misfit Founders as well and having these conversations, because it's kind of like a highlight to people that it's not. Oh, if you didn't make it in your early 20s, if you haven't become a millionaire with you know fancy cars and expensive houses and so on, which all of this rubbish, tiktok, um kind of like uh, guru, millionaire advisors, um, teach you nowadays, um, I mean this kind of like bullish attitude. Okay, I'll give you something to to clean it afterwards. I have a little scraper um, what's that face? She has a face like oh, I know I've done something. Work of work, of art, yeah, no, I, that's so.
Speaker 2:That's so true. I love that. I really love that. Um, you're right, like, that's just. It's just insane nowadays, like the amount of like garbage that is just online like like you said, like on tiktok and instagram, like people. It's all about like, yeah, become a millionaire at like age 21 and you know quick, quick money. And then there's all these like, um, well, a lot of it's just taking the piss as well. It's just taking advantage of people, isn't it? Oh yeah, it's just it's really bad. It's not really the real world, is it?
Speaker 1:I've heard this thing the other day Millionaire business guru that became a millionaire by selling their business, training and stuff like that. And there's so many nowadays when you ask, when you ask them well, but what did you do, how did you get? What was your thing? How did you get? Um, rich? You're training all of these things. Did you get rich out of these methods and this packs that you're? Oh no, oh, you got rich because you sold a bunch of rubbish, methods and hacks and such it's frightening, it's really quite frightening, isn't it?
Speaker 2:um? And then, I guess, another controversial topic, but then of course there's all the um, multi-level marketing pyramid schemes out there as well um, so yeah, no, I think it's great that you're like, yeah, putting this message out there so that people can see that actually, yeah, you doesn't.
Speaker 2:First of all, it's completely irrelevant when you start like, you start when you're ready, like you would have done a million other things and obviously, like in my case as well, because I was a young mom, like of course I wasn't gonna do this like with a baby, right?
Speaker 2:yeah would have been ridiculous. So it made sense for me that you know when, when, when my son was 12, like I was able to go and study, and then when I set my business, he was 15, so he was like at an age where he was being a bit more independent anyway, um, and like that's another thing, like similar to like. I guess business is like you know when's the right time to like become a parent?
Speaker 2:there isn't right time, like right for some people yeah younger might work out, and for other people, being older might be a much better choice. And other people don't want kids at all, and that's absolutely fine. And the same way like with business, right? Not everybody wants to set up their own business, that's also okay. Not everybody has to be a founder, or yeah, like self an entrepreneur and also I don't know.
Speaker 2:Like for me I'll be really honest as well like that was never my goal. My goal was never actually to become like to set up my own business. My goal was to help people like I wanted to help people, and this was the way to do it.
Speaker 2:Like as a nutritionist, it's very difficult to actually, if you want to work the way that you want to work, if that makes sense. Like I had quite specific ideas about how I wanted to set up, how I wanted to run my clinic, how I wanted to do my consultations, then you have to do it self-employed right.
Speaker 2:So that's the only reason that I did that. And then I guess now I'm like, oh actually, yeah, I'm quite enjoying that. I'm enjoying some of the, maybe the freedom that comes with that as well, the. I think, you know, there's a certain sense of pride when you can say, like that's my business, like again, like I've built that myself from scratch, that's cool, but that wasn't my, that was never my goal, that was never my motivation. In fact, like you know, I had no. If I hadn't become a nutritionist, I don't think I would have ever become self-employed, I would have never set up my own business. I don't think I had any intention of doing that.
Speaker 1:Interesting. That's the exact opposite of me. I think we came to the same realization, but I started the opposite, which was I want to be a businessman, whatever that meant when I was young. I love that.
Speaker 2:That's really sweet Like I want to be a businessman, whatever that meant when I was young, uh, and it was also because my dad that's so like, that's really sweet, like I want to be a businessman.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean my, my, my dad, me growing up, my dad was an entrepreneur, had his like a kids clothing store shop. Um, he was doing a lot of business, traveling, handling money, doing a lot of these things, and I was fascinated by him doing all of that and not do the same jobs that every single person in my country would do, either working in factories or doing this or doing that. So, um, yeah, I grew up saying to myself I want to be a businessman um again had no idea what that meant.
Speaker 1:But that's what I knew, what I wanted to do. And then now I kind of it kind of shifted to I want to do the things that I'm passionate about, and I know that the format that I'm going to do that is through business, because I know myself well enough to understand the stuff that I know myself well enough to understand the stuff that I, um, how I like to operate, and that is under a business, right? So, um, yeah, right, um, before this devil goes and poops somewhere in the corner because that's why she's crying, for sure, um, I have one question before the flash questions at the end, and that is where do you see this going? What's, what's the long-term vision for?
Speaker 1:And I know it's such a cliche um question, but I'm genuinely curious, right, because if you ask me what's the, if I kind of have an idea of what the long term vision for someone that's into sales has a sales business or a software business, or B2B or project management and so on I could probably guesstimate what they want to do in the next few years. What's their long vision the next few years? What's their long vision? And stuff, but with nutrition, because this is a completely new topic that I've not really sat down with that many founders of nutrition businesses. I'm genuinely interested what's coming for you, what's the the big vision, if, if any, if there's an any big vision um, for you with, uh, with your business yeah, no, I love that great question.
Speaker 2:I think um definitely a place that I would like to get to. If I could sort of say, like you know, my dream scenario, like if I could like, wake up tomorrow and this would be my life, like this would be how my business is going. Um, like I said earlier, I think I'd want to do more events, more speaking like more like, yeah, being on stage talking to a bigger audience.
Speaker 2:I definitely think I'd like to take the business that direction a bit more, but I really also want to continue to have one-on-one clients, because I do enjoy that as well, a lot, and I get a lot of satisfaction from that. A lot of like, like I said, these real sort of, you know, special moments when people come and they've had these amazing results which you only get really when you're working with someone one-on-one for like a few months.
Speaker 2:You really get to know that person, you can really support them on their health journey and then, you know, be with them when they have those results. That's really magical yeah so I'd love to continue to do that, and I'd love to be in a position, I guess, where I can really only pick the people that I'm very, very, very passionate about what they, what they're going through and that I can really only have those transform, that.
Speaker 2:The people that I said earlier that I'm going to make it make a transformational difference to their life. Like that would be amazing, like that would be my dream to kind of be in a position where I could only take on clients where I feel like that really strong connection and where, from experience, I know I'll really be able to make a difference. I think that would be amazing for me.
Speaker 1:Well, it sounds like you're soon. Your business will be eventually structured in a very specific way, which is you're impacting more lives at a time and that provides you the also the financial securities that you give. You can just work with whoever, whomever you please, because you're already covered financially from the other part.
Speaker 2:Is that accurate? Yeah, very accurate awesome okay, well, that's.
Speaker 1:I mean, that is a very clear I mean clear in a sense of what you want to achieve.
Speaker 1:It probably will require quite a bit of pull in certain directions from you, but it sounds like you're enjoying it quite a lot, so it might not be that much of a pull, but actually an organic progress in a certain direction. That much of a pull, but actually an organic progress in a certain direction. And also the fact that you have a journalism background, and I think that helps quite a lot in figuring out how to carve your path in such a way that you kind of become a I don't know, this word is used a lot and it has a negative kind of connotation, but it is kind of like a thought leader, slash influencer in the nutrition space, which I suppose require a variety of you figuring out strategies and such. And are you working towards that actively now? Or I mean, you are on this podcast and stuff, but are you or is it kind of? This is something that I'm thinking of pushing more aggressively somewhere in the future that I'm thinking of pushing more aggressively somewhere in the future?
Speaker 2:um, probably more the latter at the moment.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, no, I think I haven't like properly sat down and like made a plan or like a strategy to figure out how I would get there. Um, so I think, yeah, it's quite interesting actually, like speaking to you today has probably made me more aware of what I actually want, if that makes sense. Um, so, definitely something that I think I'll be looking at, um, hopefully in the near future, though, to kind of um put a strategy in place and like drive towards that a bit more actively oh, please, please, please, come back to me in a while and say you know, bureau, that day when we had the conversation really made me take action.
Speaker 1:And look at me now. That would be so fulfilling for me. Okay, that would be my side of being fulfilled.
Speaker 2:It's a deal, I'll be back.
Speaker 1:Awesome, Right. I usually close with three flash questions. Number one what is a quote that you live by? Yeah, If any, because I had two. I think I had two occurrences.
Speaker 2:people like I don't like quotes, and that is perfectly fine as well. I love, I love quotes, especially the very cheesy ones. So, as a disclaimer, some people will probably just roll their eyes and no, I don't care about anyone watching.
Speaker 1:I I'm at. I'm at the dad jokes age.
Speaker 2:Okay, I love cheesy um quotes and jokes and so my favorite one, and that I definitely feel like I live by and I keep repeating to myself, and that I had to really repeat to myself when I started this like when I started this business, which was a huge change for me, right, coming from like a very secure sort of corporate job into becoming, like, being self-employed as a, you know, single parent.
Speaker 2:So, um, it's, you don't have to see the whole staircase to take the first step, okay, and I know it's so cheesy, but I just love it, it was so. I remember the first time I heard that quote and I was like, oh my god, like it was like life-changing. Because I'm that person.
Speaker 2:I definitely, um have a tendency to want to plan ahead. I really struggle to do anything like spontaneous or, you know, on the go like I plan ahead, like in my business and in my personal life. I'm a planner, like if you ask my friends if they want me, if they want to like ask me to come and do something, they know they have to ask me like two weeks in advance. They're not going to be like, oh, let's do this today. No, I'm going to have plans already, um. So I always plan in a head plan ahead, which in many ways that's good, right. In many ways that's made me who I am and that's made me successful in what I do, right, because I'm very organized, um, and I get stuff done. But on the other hand, it's also sometimes made me quite scared if I, if I want to do something, but I don't know how I'm gonna get there.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes that can be like, oh, maybe I shouldn't try this and so when I you know how I said earlier that, from deciding that I wanted to do something different with my life to actually signing up to do the course, it was one area that's why right, because I couldn't see how I could make that work right so when I decided to go and study, I still had no idea. I had no idea how I was going to earn money with this but you just decided I've waited enough.
Speaker 2:Don't have to see the whole staircase to take the first step, and I knew that the first step was to go and sign up and become a nutritionist was.
Speaker 1:It was that, when you heard this quote yeah in that period and you decided actually that's right.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's.
Speaker 1:That's really good. You see quotes that actually help and impact um people's uh journey. You know I can't relate with planning ahead.
Speaker 1:I figured you might say that, but I know people that uh, do that. So you know it makes sense and I've. You know, I've seen, and I think this is why there was such a good balance between me and my co-founder, nikki, because she's more like that. She needs to see the forest from the trees, right Like, in a sense, in order to act on something, and a lot of the times, her analytical and kind of like planning attitude helped save our bums in so many scenarios, but also, a lot of the times, me kind of like saying okay, stop, pause, pause, no more analysis, no more thinking about it because we're not moving forward. We have to move forward with something, helped as well. So it's like it. It has to be a balance right. Too much of it either is, you know, it's dangerous agreed and I love that that you've got.
Speaker 2:That's really nice, that you guys have that balance. I think that's so important, um, and that works really well. And yeah, so for myself, I kind of you know, because it's just me in the business I have to do that, I have to kind of try and lean into both sides and because I naturally am more of a planner. I think that you know that quote sometimes has really helped me to kind of just have the guts to go.
Speaker 1:I don't know where this is going to lead, but I'm going to take the first step anyway and just see what happens yeah and actually it's worked out the thing is, even if you're a solo, solo founder, um, it's acknowledging the fact that you are have some type of personality and surrounding yourself with people that may have a bit of the other side of things, because I'm starting a business now and I'm not this business with Nikki anymore, but I do have other co-founders that kind of fulfill some of her traits, because I know I need to surround myself with people that balance that, because if I would do it on my own I would be failing again like I failed in the past, because I I know what my I know now what my limitations and, um, my faulty parts are so important to like, have that self-awareness and understand who you are right like, what you're good at and what you sometimes may need to ask for help for, and that's okay but you see, I am at the age of of that dog, that dogs, that dogs, yes as well.
Speaker 1:Um, that jokes.
Speaker 2:Because when you said that in my head I was like, well, that's a really good, that, that makes a lot of sense it wasn't a cheesy one for me so definitely I love that, maybe because I have a teenage son and he just makes fun of me for saying things like that probably yeah, probably most likely um book that um changed or impacted your life uh, yeah, so health related.
Speaker 2:Uh, gabba mate, when the body says no, um, it's a really yeah, I guess. Yeah, it's a really interesting book about how our mental health and the things, our emotions and the things that we experience on a mental level actually impact us physically as well, and sort of understanding, really really fully understanding the impact that stress has on our physical health.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was quite life changing in a way for me, first of all in terms of my own health, like understanding that maybe you know, taking a break, like if you want to look after others, you also have to look after yourself, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And sometimes that involves taking a break and not being a workaholic and also in terms of my clinic, because it's also helped me, when I'm seeing my clients one-to-one, to really pay attention to what's going on in their life, not just looking at their food diary and their shopping, cooking and eating habits, but also looking at what else is going on in their life. What are their relationships like, what is their work-life balance, like which I've always done, but I do so much more on a much bigger level since I read that book no, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:I've I've learned the hard way how stress can impact health, for sure, and then a good habit that you advocate for, and I'm going to put a rule here not related to nutrition.
Speaker 2:No, you can't say that I was going to say drink more water.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say drink more water. I can't give you a challenge if I did a habit and you give me something related to your, to your expertise.
Speaker 2:I'm not happy about this. So, yeah, I was gonna say drink more water, and that is really important. By the way, it's like foundational. So what other good habits can I think of? That isn't nutrition related, but, but can it be like okay, oh, you know what, but can it be like health related? Still not food, though.
Speaker 2:uh yes okay, um, I started journaling recently journaling yes, and I never thought that I would be that person so in the past. Obviously, because I'm interested in health, not just nutrition. I'm interested in exercise and mental health as well. Like anything health-related, right, like there's so many factors, it's like a jigsaw, isn't it? So I'm always fascinated by learning more about how we can improve our health right, and that could be spending more time outdoors, like morning, daylight exposure. It's not always food related, and journaling is something that loads of people told me was a good thing to do and that a lot of therapists so people who specialize in that area say is a really, really, really effective and good tool. And so for years, I had people telling me how amazing journaling is, and I was even telling people oh, you should try journaling, but I never actually did it myself. So I felt like a bit of a fraud, like a bit of a hypocrite, like telling people to do this when I'd never actually successfully done it. So I bought a journal and like.
Speaker 2:I'd. Actually I bought several journals over the years and then did it like once and then never again, because I just felt like really strange, didn't really know what I was doing. And then um went to this conference, um, and when was it? Maybe like three, four months, yeah, maybe three months ago, uh, and met a friend there who's also she's she's also a doctor and functional medicine practitioner. And she just said, like out of the blue, she was like, oh, get this thing. It's called the five minute journal. And I was like, oh, that sounds cool.
Speaker 2:And when you open it like I bought it on Amazon, it's like 20 quid or whatever. You open it and on the first page it says like this is like for people, this is a journal for people that don't do journaling. And I was like, oh, this is for me. Um, and I've been doing it now for just over a month, I think. Yeah, like a month and a half maybe, and it's just five minutes a day and it's got like these prompts and I've been doing it really consistently. So every morning and every evening I actually just spend like a couple of minutes.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you're doing it twice a day, yeah.
Speaker 2:So first thing when you wake up and last thing before you go to sleep, but it literally takes two minutes, okay, and you just answer a couple of questions and it has been really amazing what, what, what are the effects? So being much more present in the moment, being much more mindful and like that reflection at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:One of the questions that you answer before you go to bed is like three highlights of the day and writing down what your highlights were of that day, and it made me realize that those were very different things to what I thought it would have been, if that makes sense. They were little things like, oh, my son gave me a hug, or I had this like really nice iced matcha on my way when I was going for a walk, you know, and I really enjoyed it. Um, so they were little things. So when I was thinking back, what, what did I do today? That was a highlight for me. It often wasn't the big things.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like the big, huge, like oh, I don't know, signed a new client or you know um had like a really successful consultation or whatever. It was often little things that I realized those actually play a much bigger role in my overall happiness than I thought and because I've been doing that for a month and every evening writing down the little things, now I've started, without realizing, making more of an effort to find time for those things.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's. It sounds like a small thing, but it's been really meaningful, like it's been really big in terms of actually making me I a happier person overall. I think I was pretty happy before but, you know, just overall happier and more content and more grateful with what I've got, because I'm actually taking time to reflect on yeah, things like that, like.
Speaker 1:So yeah, journaling the five minute journal, five minute journal. I need to look into this, but I think, you, there's something there. I think we come to the conclusion to reveal, to a revelation that what makes us happy day to day is not what we think makes us happy day to day. Right, we, you, when we think about our future and how our life will look like and professionally, personally, a fulfilled life where these things that we call smaller daily things give us joy and pleasure, like the amount of people that, and honestly, that's a reflection of you being happy in the place that you are, with the business that you have, with the personal life that you have, that you find joy in small things. Because I feel when we're stressed, when we're bummed, when we're in very bad situations, we don't notice them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, agreed, you know you go and have a coffee rushed because you're stressed and so on. You don't even taste it, right? You do something and you don't even experience it. You're not even there, right? Maybe? That's, in a sense, that's the five minutes journal. A revelation point is, you know, actually, if you enjoy the small things you do in life, then you're in a good place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's definitely. That's a really good way of putting it.
Speaker 1:Awesome Journaling. Thank you so much for that. I'm sure like if you would have told me half an hour ago you should take up journaling, I'll be like I'm a grown, almost 40 year old dude why should I be journaling? But now you're really making me think that I should probably. I love that, and it's not even necessarily journaling, but reflecting over the day because I feel like we don't do that enough.
Speaker 2:We don't right Like we're so, so busy. All of us are just so busy. We're just rushing around all of the time, like you just said, right, and like half the time when you go to bed, like you know, you might be like watching something on Netflix or whatever, until you just like zone out and then you're asleep, right, um, and it's actually I mean, I kid you not, it's two minutes, it like that. It's really not a long time.
Speaker 2:But it makes such a difference, because it just makes me go to bed with oh actually, yeah, that was really nice, like I had a great day today, or even if I didn't have a great day, if maybe the day overall felt a bit rubbish yeah there was still at least three nice moments in it.
Speaker 2:There was still at least three things in it that I enjoyed yeah um, and that's a great way to like, yeah, go to bed and, like I said, I think it does also send kind of a bit of a message to your like subconscious mind that those are the things that we're looking for. And that then, like I said then, that that makes me be more present in those moments, which is how I felt over the last sort of three, four weeks since I started journaling. It's I felt like I've been more present in those moments and I've been looking for those little things and I've been making more time for them. So, making an extra 10 minutes to maybe go and see a friend, even if it's just for like a short time, because I know that last time I saw her, I wrote in my journal that seeing her and giving her a hug was one of my highlights, so I'm gonna make more of an effort to see her again that sounds like it's a fly with flywheel effect in a sense.
Speaker 1:Right so you're. You're amplifying the things that make you happy yes, yeah that's awesome yeah, I love it. Yeah, you may you might have taught me something. Uh, very, very important lesson today oh, I love that.
Speaker 2:Please do let me know if you do get the journal, like the five minute journal. Let me know how you find it. I'd be so interested I will.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I'll definitely um have a look is. Is it a printed version?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, and it's really nice like it's it's. It's pretty, but not like super girly pretty so okay, it'll be okay.
Speaker 1:It'll be okay for you. I don't mind that.
Speaker 2:Okay, but yeah, and it's literally like you just get it on amazon. It's just like a little booklet like that you put on your bedside table. Like literally what I do is like I put it on my bedside table and then when I've done it in the morning, I put it on my pillow so that I remember when I go to bed to do it.
Speaker 1:So that's also the way like talking about habits, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:like that was something like to create the habit of actually doing the journal. You have to kind of put these little things in place yeah, very true.
Speaker 1:And then have in the morning have a, an alarm clock contraption that actually slaps you with the, with the book boom wake up and write something amazing, yes, perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining and for putting up with uh, with peanuts, uh fur.
Speaker 2:Oh well, that's been a highlight for me meeting her, yeah and she's like she's judgmental.
Speaker 1:Now it's like come on, dude, I need to go, I need to go out. Do you want to go out? Do you want to go? Poop, right, okay. Thank you so much for the chat it was really insightful.
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed it awesome Possibly.
