Misfit Founders
Misfit Founders
Young Founder, Big Vision: How Priyanka Vazirani is Changing Content Consumption
In this podcast we delve into the journey of Volv's co-founder, Priyanka Vazirani, highlighting the crucial role of founder brand building and content in establishing meaningful connections and partnerships.
Priyanka elaborates on the challenges of community building in a B2B context and how Volv addresses these by offering curated nine-second reads for high-performing individuals. The podcast also covers essential startup principles such as having a unified 'North star,' embracing experimentation, and pivoting.
Additionally, Priyanka shares personal philosophies on perfection, user needs, and the importance of mental and physical well-being.
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/priyanka-vazirani/
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DISCLAIMER
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It's a pleasure to meet you and I can say that with conviction because this is like the first time we properly talk. We've exchanged two words across a couple of emails but again, as I mentioned while we're heading here, I really what attracted me to having a conversation with you, apart from having you have a really cool service and product, very cool product that I want you to do a bit of a pitch on but the fact that someone from your team reached out. They were speaking quite nicely about what you and your co-founder are doing and the business. It just gave me confidence that you are invested as a company in content and you just validated that, that you invest now in organic content and organic reach, in a sense, yeah, what these podcasts are, and that's the type of founders that I'm quite interested in, that actually see the value of these conversations and I would say, beyond brand exposure and such, but also just giving back to the community, because that's what we're trying to do here.
Speaker 1:So they will focus quite a bit on your journey as a founder, but let's start with a quick elevator pitch of what your business does sure.
Speaker 3:Before that, I just want to say thank you for everything you said. It is really, you know, hard to build something that's organic and I really appreciate you seeing that. So, yeah, uh, about volve Quick elevator pitch Sure, so basically, at this point, it's extremely overwhelming to keep in touch with everything that's happening in the world over, like 10 plus platforms, right, you have like newsletters, news, social media, like 10 different types of social media, podcasts, newsletters, everything, and so Valve just really makes it easy for you. We give you the best content from across the internet in nine second reads and it's all in one place. So you're literally in one app and in a few swipes you're well updated on the latest hype trends, on breaking news, on newsletters, on what's happening. You know, like what's the most viral social debate right now, on whichever platform that's happening. And, yeah, so far we've been backed by Snapchat. We've had over 35 million stories swiped on the app and more to come.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. And how does that happen? Do users connect their various accounts? Does that happen? Do users connect their various accounts? Do you suggest certain things? Is it more focused on news and updates from across the world, or individuals personal network as well? Is it?
Speaker 3:it's not personal, it's more about keeping in touch with what's happening in the world right now. So in in, in essence, you've kind of like redefined what news is for our generation right.
Speaker 3:If you ask your parents what's news, they'll say finance, politics, maybe sports. That's it. But for us it's literally what are people talking about? What's the most viral thing that's happening? Obviously, it comes to, like you know, israel, gaza and breaking news that you should know, that you don't necessarily go out of your way to learn more about. And then it's also things that you want to know, like you want to explore. Maybe you want to explore something more in tech, somebody else might want to explore something more in fashion, and so we kind of get literally the best content from everywhere and then just have it out there for you. So it's like your little way to be updated.
Speaker 1:That is one that's super useful, but also quite interesting. My engineer brain, because I have an engineering background and I used to be a software engineer in the past is thinking, asking questions how does that work? How do you? That's a big statement, the best bits right. The best news, the best topics, and so on. How do you define what's best?
Speaker 3:Well, there are two ways we look at it. I mean, there are two real pockets, right, it's things that you should know, things that you know.
Speaker 3:it's like Israel-Gaza right now, or it could be trends that you don't necessarily go out of your way to seek, but at the same time, you kind of expect that knowledge to come to you somehow, and so it's just really easy for you to be updated. And the funny thing is that most of our users don't use social media Like. We had so many user interviews, and in those interviews we realized that there's a massive demographic out there who doesn't use social media, and their go-to app, like their finger, literally goes to Evolve instead because they don't have time to doom scroll.
Speaker 3:They don't have time to go through 10 different platforms. They just want one place that gives them everything, and so that's the whole point, right? It's like nine second articles, like literally screenshots of content that you can just like scroll through and in a few minutes you're completely updated on like over 20 stories.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. It's also very amazing to the reaction that I just had now, which was like people not using social media, what? Who's that? Well, maybe Ovi over there, our production assistant on set, because he doesn't use social media that much. So, yeah, see.
Speaker 3:I think the fact is that more and more people are coming to this realization and I think, more recently, a lot of people have joined this bandwagon, especially in Europe I think, more than America and people just finally realize that it's really sucking your life and sucking your time and so, when you delete that, you just want to be more productive.
Speaker 3:You just like have so much more time to yourself in a day, time to yourself in a day, and at the same time, like, when we look at who our users really are, it doesn't really matter in any kind of like age group. It literally is like high school students who want to go to Ivy Leagues, or it could be like college students who are really like you know on it, want to do something with their life, or founders, c-suite executives. That's why, literally, we just say a high-performing individuals, because I literally uh, got an email from some user and I was like, hey, can we get on a you know, a call to like ask you more questions? Because he was giving so much feedback and I was expecting like some gen z person. Turns out he was a 90-year-old man who worked in media his entire life.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:And he was like he spoke exactly like anybody else I'd spoken to, like any other Gen Z or any other millennial with the same exact problems. Like there's just so much going on, I can't keep up. And he was just like so nice to be, you know interviewed by any kind of company.
Speaker 2:He was like so thrilled. But he's like why don't people know about you? And I'm like your friends?
Speaker 3:probably don't, but it was really interesting to know that.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. The one thing that I would say is I don't know how to feel about this. I'm quite conflicted Because, as in not your business in your app, I think that's a brilliant idea Summarizing things, just decluttering and absorbing the information that you really need yeah Right, really need. Yeah right, um. And not shoved in your eye socket and in your brain a ton of garbage yeah right, um. So from that perspective, I'm completely agree with it and it sounds like a great idea.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna download the app after this and check it out thank you um and the reason I'm conflicted, because on one side, I'm like hell, yeah, yeah, people should give up social media. Everyone should get away. It's evil, it's malefic, it it's a terrible instrument of keeping you stuck to your screen. That's that. I want to basically make my part, put in the effort and share my knowledge and others knowledge and make this Misfit Founders platform. Right. And share with the world and potentially help founders in the future that are going through things. Yeah.
Speaker 1:One of my primary tools in order to get awareness over what I'm doing is social media right yeah so and it comes to the other thing right, because the the other thing that, for example, chadjpd is a great tool, but what? What it does extract is it gives you the information. I need no clutter, no. Extract is it gives you the information that you need no clutter, no crazy search results and a bunch of other things. You can do your research, but it doesn't.
Speaker 1:It limits the opportunity of people like myself and others that aren't big publications and such, in getting in front of people that need this type of content right so that's why I'm a bit conflicted about whether should we, should social media platforms exist or not, and should we focus on more like, just like curated and kind of like best of best content? Um, because you know, is my content not best? Maybe or maybe not, but until it sits in front of someone to judge it like it may very well be, or some people might think it's garbage. So I was wondering that's why I'm asking also, what is best? What are the some of the sources that you're getting that information and how do you um in? How is, how is the platform getting inclusive to include not just like, let's say, these reputable places which are safe, right in the sense, but also some of the other more, let's say, alternative or indie type of content creation?
Speaker 3:So I completely agree with you like social media is absolutely great for awareness too, but the key fact in that is it's very visual. It's literally focused on people who want to get in front of the camera, including you. You have a podcast, but you also have, like, like, the video part right right. Why we do nine seconds is because of our attention span, right. So our attention span is now down to nine seconds. It used to be like 12 seconds earlier.
Speaker 3:But because of the TikTokification of our brains, it's just keeping on reducing. So our entire thing is focused on short form content. But every article links out to something. So we link out to articles, we link out to newsletters, we also link out to podcasts. We also link out to any kind of social media posts. Like if Kylie Jenner announces a new company on Instagram, we link out to her posts on Instagram. So it's kind of like one place for everything.
Speaker 3:And in terms of what you just said. In terms of discovery, right, it's absolutely phenomenal when it comes to social media, is absolutely phenomenal when it comes to helping anybody become somebody and get in front of massive audiences. But when it comes to people who are not about getting in front of the camera making videos, um, what happens to them? Like? How do they get discovered? Well, there's I mean they probably will go on twitter and be like subscribe to my newsletter and then they'll be like trying to, you know, gather a following on instagram or something else.
Speaker 1:My partner does the same thing Like. And the thing is that there's, you know, for example, in the professional world, you have LinkedIn and there's probably other places where you can promote and, yes, I think we got, as a society and culture, digital culture. We got to this visual aspect because Instagram, tiktokiktok, youtube shorts and so on it is a feeling, it 100 is my partner is um has a newsletter for example, because you're talking about non-video content.
Speaker 1:So what she generates as main knowledge sharing is verbal. But she's kind of like put into this position where, okay, I can type text and create awesome posts and and stuff on instagram sorry, on linkedin and this and that, but when? But? But then tiktok is growing for me and it's a good platform.
Speaker 3:I should make more tiktoks I agree, I completely agree with everything you just said. But again, all of the focus has been visual. So even though she has a newsletter, she's using TikTok as her channel to grow. We kind of want to be the place for non, not like, not camera first not.
Speaker 3:Not rich media type of content no it's literally like anybody who's all about writing or podcasting, right, so there's so many newsletters out there. There's literally at this moment, it's the peak of newsletters, right, like every startup, every second community has a newsletter and literally almost so many people have newsletters. But how do you discover them unless somebody like literally you know, is like recommending something to you, or you come across some of their social media or something like that, or they're literally on twitter saying, okay, now I'm gonna build my following and then I'm gonna scream subscribe, subscribe. It's just so inefficient. We kind of want to be the tiktok for everybody who doesn't want to get in front of the camera. Okay, so right now, you can also think of it as a chicken and egg situation, right, like when we started.
Speaker 3:Obviously we can't have everybody else publishing content.
Speaker 3:First you need the people who want to read the content.
Speaker 3:So we first focus on publishing all the content ourselves and then um the users in, and so, now that we have our users, the next phase is to like really integrate a lot of newsletters and podcasts and literally have like give channels out to people so that they can include their own content.
Speaker 3:So that's the grand vision, because, if you think about the entire landscape. You have instagram for photos at least it used to be ticked off for videos spotify for everything audio, but when it comes to text content, there's literally nothing that is adapted to how our generation wants to consume content, and so we want to be that particular app on everybody's phone so that when they click on it, they can literally be updated about everything, whether whether it comes to news from like you know, something more reputable like a BBC, to a newsletter from somebody, to something that maybe, if you're interested in crypto, you'll be, like you know, shown crypto newsletters that you will be discovering, and then it's a win-win for both. Right, like you are happy because you're discovering something you really like to read, and the newsletter writer is happy because they are getting pushed in front of audiences that they wouldn't otherwise get in front of and obviously, like the nine second read is just like a taste yeah, I can accept exactly so, given our attention span.
Speaker 3:It's all about like show me something. Show me why I should spend the next five minutes reading a long thousand word newsletter, or give me a nine second pitch on why I should sit down and listen to a 20 minute podcast, you know so it's literally a glimpse of everything out there for you to sit and digest. So obviously this is our vision and we're slowly working towards that. But yeah, even right now we're always featuring newsletters and podcasters. So well, now you know you're my podcast.
Speaker 1:Maybe we can have misfit from that anyway um I think that is.
Speaker 1:That is a really good application to have, because I find myself as well dumb scrolling through LinkedIn. But I went there because I was interested in let me see what's going on in my ecosystem, let me see the latest titles and the latest happening and so on. And be it YouTube, which has a lot of um dumb scrolling there as well. Um, yeah, it's, uh, instagram not that much, just checking on my friends, but then again you bump into so much. It used to be instagram, used to be on your timeline.
Speaker 1:You used to only see friends friends and all of a sudden I can't see my friends in the timeline. It's just content from people that I don't know and my friends don't interact with, or anything like that so that's what happens and and I don't have an option I think the only close thing that came to me was to use some of these um news apps like um.
Speaker 1:Um, apple ios has like a news scrolling thing where, where you can go, grow, go through, so that's the closest um, which kind of like brings me actually to a good question how does the app compare to some of these news and so on? Is it you're including more content from other sources than you know, because Apple will include your New York Times and this and this and that? Yeah, and is it also related to algorithm? How does it compare with some of your competition and do you even consider these competition?
Speaker 3:Sure. So I mean, even though we say it's technically news because that's the closest word to describe it technically it's like a text discovery app, right, like you can just read about anything and everything in one place. When we think about competitors, like, obviously people compare us to news and that's fine. Apple News, google News, smart news these are all aggregators, so basically they take news from a bunch of different websites and have a long list in front of you and then again you have to get on your phone, go through the long list and then make that effort in terms of like, okay, what do I want to read now?
Speaker 3:right, right think about it as like netflix versus tiktok when you open netflix, you spend at least 10 minutes oh yes, probably I finish the popcorn by the time I find a movie or your dinner or whatever right, you're just like okay, now I get in front of Netflix and then now I have to pick what am I going to watch, and then subconsciously, your finger, your, your hand, just goes on your phone and say, okay, let me just, you know, get on social, like I'll just go through TikTok or Reels or something, because the funny thing is you open tiktok because it's easy, it understands what you like and it's showing you everything right away, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, similarly, like that's the kind of difference when it comes to all of these news aggregators and above. So news aggregator is going to show you like 10 different headlines and then 10 different categories, and then you have to sift through everything and be like I want to read about this or I want to read about this, and then when you click on them, they're so long I just can't be bothered. You just want to say, ok, give me the crux of this, right. And then at the same time like when it comes to situations like Israel, gaza, for example there are people rooting for both sides On the same list. You'll see the same topic written in two different ways and again you have to sit down and be like who's right? That's a lot of effort for me who's just on a nap trying to understand what's happening in the world right. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so we have kind of like changed every way. Like we literally looked at news apps and the news in general and said, nope, we're not doing that, we're going to go completely different. So, long form we're like nope, nine second reads, long list nope. We kind of mimicked social media, because we're all used to scrolling and when it comes to you know, like like biases and stuff, we kind of have a very neutral stance. Yes, we might make some mistakes and we're learning, but overall, if you see, we don't take any stances in terms of like, okay, biden is right or Trump is right. We just say this happened, go figure out who you want to vote for. Or, like this is what's happening in Israel and Gaza, you determine who's right because even when you think about the younger audience, like Gen Z doesn't want to be told what they should think, they want to. They want to come up with their own opinions and that's fine, that's good, that's healthy actually. So a lot of different ways. Format.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And the literally everything, format and the content all different. Oh, and the last thing we also include social media content and newsletter content, which a lot of these news aggregators wouldn't consider news and so they wouldn't put it in. So it's automatically very young our content compared to anything that's on these news aggregators.
Speaker 1:What has been the most challenging part of building this, because this, honestly, just listening to you talk, this is amazing. I think anyone that would listen to how you described the application the UVP in a sense be like I'm'm sold, I want this app, I want to go in and scroll through this. I might not completely give up my social media just now. I'm probably gonna decrease the amount because you know, if I, if I want to read what's happening in the world and get some good sources of knowledge just now, I'm sure that I'm not going to fall in the rabbit hole of the social medias and so on, that's great, but also in my head there's so many things that I'm like that seems like a big problem to solve. That other thing seems immense as well. So what have been some of the tough challenges that you need to crack with building this product?
Speaker 3:I think, simply put like as an early stage consumer app, getting in front of as many people is just challenging and so, in terms of that, like literally especially doing it in a very organic way, which we're doing it as right, like you have less resources, you don't have like millions of money, just burn in terms of like social media ads, and the funny thing is our audience is not even on social. So even if we spend money on those ads, it's not really going to convert as well as it would usually, as well as it would usually.
Speaker 3:So I think growth and really going to people who understand the product. So literally the best case has been word of mouth, but yeah, I think growth is one constant thing that we always have to focus on, which is similar to every other consumer company.
Speaker 1:And to make sure that I understand when you say your audience is not on social media, are you referring to your first tier consumer in?
Speaker 3:a sense, yeah, core users.
Speaker 1:Core users, first tier consumers, because I could definitely see me that I'm a social media consumer needing something.
Speaker 3:I use social too, at times not as much, but I do use social because as a founder I need to have some kind of and obviously I also have to like check, like balls, pages and stuff like that. So I'm not off social media completely, but it has resonated the best amongst people who don't use social and yeah, right.
Speaker 1:So then, basically, that's your entry point in terms of adoption, because this is the lowest friction type of customer that you would get now, because they don't consume social media and they're actively looking for a solution like yours, versus converting some of the people that you know spend time on social media to use, which, again, I think is probably a next step um, it is.
Speaker 3:I mean, our users don't like they're. So our top tier users, our core users, are the ones who don't really use social. So there are also several who do use social but are not very fixated on, like you know, spending too many hours on it. Or there's also another batch who is like, okay, I have social for, like you know, friends and like releasing my stress and just being entertained, because TikTok is kind of like the new TV, right, yeah, but they use Evolve just to be educated or informed or to be, like some of our users call us a smarter TikTok. So that's another way to put it like, yes, you go on TikTok to be entertained, but if you want to like learn things or know what's happening, then you get involved right.
Speaker 1:I do think that maybe, maybe, I'm hopeful that maybe in the future, when um things are um in a really good place for um, for vol from all from adoption perspective, you take on social media and be like no, we'll take you, you down and get people out of this rut of consuming nonsense.
Speaker 3:I think more than that. It's more about the social media companies looking at us like you are tapping someone that I cannot reach. So, I think that's another thing, because that's especially the case when it comes to like brands.
Speaker 3:And now when we're starting, you know, like we're starting to get in conversations when it's about, like, putting ads on the app and so who we're targeting. So we have a great consumer base where they're extremely smart people. They are making more money than people watching videos on, you know, tiktok and stuff. They are not just mindlessly doom scrolling, they're actively, mindfully, trusting the content involved and reading so, and they're not on any social media so you really can't reach them anywhere else. So from that perspective, like it's also a really cool play for brands to get in on to reach an audience that they wouldn't usually get yeah, very true.
Speaker 1:That's actually a very good point. Very good point. Where would, where else would would brands reach this? These?
Speaker 3:that's the funny thing, because recently I was another event. They are online right.
Speaker 1:So it's not like they're off the grid yeah, they just don't consume social media. But there are other places, other channels where they exist.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean literally. I met this woman last week at a similar tech event and she had a clothing company and she personally wasn't on social. And then she was just talking about how she doesn't mind not being on social because she kind of like uses her brain to be like how would I target people like me? And so she, you know, just like getting in front of like obviously hers is fashion. So being in self-ridges, being in like some of the major stores and having like big posters talking about a fashion brand is more like anybody will come across that. So that's different, but it is really hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember a day, a time, where the website level advertising and Google advertising or search advertising were the strongest location to place an ad, and I think that shifted quite a lot and and seeing ads and paying for ads on social media was such a you know novel thing, and now it's completely shifted. I mean, search is still kind of a thing, but yeah, it kind of shifted significantly to social media. So that's why, when you said this, where do you advertise? Maybe in apps that are very specific for stuff like your app.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the funny thing is is also when people are searching nowadays like there was a recent study that talked about how people are literally googling, like how we say we google things we search for things. Some of the younger audience are literally searching for things on tiktok yeah so even google is being somehow not replaced, but there's competition there also from a social media giant, which is something that no one would have expected a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1:Google has other places and other platforms to fear, like Chachapiti.
Speaker 3:Yeah, open AI.
Speaker 1:They're on their deathbed, in a sense, unless they do something radical with the search. This is so fascinating to me. I could talk for hours just about this topic, because I'm so curious about your mission with this, but I want to switch gears a bit and chat about you as a founder. You also have a co-founder, yes, which is in New York, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 3:India and New York.
Speaker 1:India and New York.
Speaker 3:India and New York, so shuffling.
Speaker 1:Oh right, she lives in India, okay.
Speaker 3:And we travel back and forth to New York very often.
Speaker 1:Ah, okay. That makes sense I think I saw on her profile New York or something.
Speaker 3:Yes we're there very often Okay.
Speaker 1:Mainly for work. So, yeah, I feel that New York is a good place to be, to network something like this it really is.
Speaker 3:When it comes to the tech community, I feel like New York is unmatched. I can't speak for SF, because I haven't really been there in terms of like networking or anything like that, but nothing like that in London either really no, it's better than London.
Speaker 1:I mean London. It's been a tech capital Europe at one point. I don't know if it's still considered that.
Speaker 3:I don't know, but it doesn't feel like it Post-COVID.
Speaker 3:Things have changed significantly, I mean there's a lot of scope for more community and for more you know, events and stuff. Like at least for women. I feel like this one community that's really good was Female Founders Rise, but like that's the only thing that has like really cool events or like has really informative things. Event so like has really informative things, but apart from that, like I haven't come across anything amazing that I'm like okay, wow, this is good because in New York it's so easy. It's like you meet one person, then you meet like five more people, or like you go to the same event so often you kind of know everybody in the tech space, like it's very easy and there's so many things going on constantly that you're never out of options. Yeah, it's like there's one event in like two months or three right and you go to new york often yes um with your co-founder.
Speaker 1:Do you go there together or?
Speaker 3:uh, not necessarily, but if it's something major, like some major event, or we're hosting events, or when you, when we had a, when we got featured on time square obviously went together, but um, I think I saw that that was awesome yes that was really thrilling. They're doing something we didn't pay for it that's literally everybody's question um, again completely organic, I'm sure you would pay like, pay like.
Speaker 1:That would be the last place that you would invest your hard-earned cash at this stage.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent, but it was a campaign by Brex, and then they basically were looking for founders and were like hey. But I think the funny part is, like you know, people are like okay, you were on Times Square billboard and like you must have got a lot of downloads, a lot of like traction from there.
Speaker 3:That's not true. Nobody was looking up and like, okay, I'm going to download every one of these things, but it was more from everybody talking about it, like all of our friends, all of our family members posting about it and like that just builds so much more traction you know like posting on like linkedin or like anything like that yeah, very true, because then everyone would share with their friends.
Speaker 1:Oh look, look, my, my friend here is famous. She's on a billboard in new york that's basically what happened and you get a lot more exposure to those networks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, their communities their communities.
Speaker 1:So, and are you based in London? Yeah, okay, how are you finding London to start a business here?
Speaker 3:So I didn't start the business here. I actually moved here quite recently, Okay, but we actually started during COVID and at that time there was literally no one meeting anyone. Everything was online. So literally we just focused on online communities and online growth strategies.
Speaker 1:Right, and you're coming from overseas and you moved to London.
Speaker 3:Yes, I moved here recently because I got married and my husband needs to be here. Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was wondering if you had your business and you moved to London, specifically because, oh, I'm going to move to London because that's where I want to grow my business.
Speaker 3:Not necessarily for that, that wasn't the case. Business, not necessarily for that, but um, I mean in terms of like work and network and everything else. I feel like new york is always like king, and so that's why we go there very often. But london was not necessarily for work okay, like london or not I love it, my first. The funny thing is, my first job was also in London, but just not media related was, uh, in finance right, okay, so you're familiar with.
Speaker 3:London, okay cool, you're, you're, you're, you're comfy here I suppose my first internship was here, my first job was here. I also came here for summer school, so I've been many times.
Speaker 1:But how did you and your co-founder come up with? This idea. Yeah, what was the catalyst? What did you? Was it an? Aha moment Very long story.
Speaker 3:Yes, but we were actually working on a different startup before this. It was a social impact startup, so we both went our separate ways. We've been best friends since high school really, but I studied in LA, she studied in Boston, she did consulting and law, I did finance, and then we just happened to, you know, talk about like big vision, what we want to do in life, and we really just wanted to like make an impact. And so when, um, we started like thinking about what we want to do, we just thought about like a social startup. Our first company was literally a social startup that partnered with any kind of online companies to raise money for urgent crises. So that included included anything from floods to COVID to literally anything urgent.
Speaker 3:And so one of our campaigns, our first campaign in the US, is literally what led to Valve. It was about the migrants at the border in the United States and the news was completely polarized. Some of them were talking about oh, they're rapists, opportunists, don't let them in. And obviously the most scandalous the headline is, the faster it spreads, which is unfortunate, and we couldn't get anyone to partner with us. Like literally all the brands are like any other campaign, but not this one one, and so we literally just cold emailed celebrities like hey, can you help us spread the word about this? And we chose celebrities who had spoken about immigration before. So luckily Kerry Washington, ilana Glazer, prabal Grung they all posted for us on Instagram right and the conversation completely changed.
Speaker 3:And so that's when we realized, like that shouldn't be the status quo. You shouldn't have to reach out or rely on celebrities to spread the word on what's happening in the world. Also, when it comes to a user or just anybody in our generation, nobody's going on to like wwwbbccom.
Speaker 1:Like that doesn't happen.
Speaker 3:I mean, I used to do that when I was working in finance because I had to for work, but after that not really. And so we kind of realized that the format, the structure, the content is so outdated and so archaic that it's out of touch with our generation. And so that's when we realized, okay, let let's create one product that has content from everywhere. It's very short, snappy nine seconds only, mimicking social media, and it's unbiased also, so it's literally the best of everything in one easy, simple product.
Speaker 1:How much time did it took you from from realizing? Look at this, we can't find, like there's just like so much bias and such um to figuring out that the solution was this well, literally this campaign.
Speaker 3:And so we realize that there's a bigger problem the fact that nobody knows what's happening in the world, especially in our generation. And that's when we just started like you know, like coming up with different like ideas in terms of what it would look like, and we were very sure it had to be short form, um, and yeah, it was pretty quick. And I think what was really important was that a couple of months after we started, snapchat was taking in applications for the accelerator and somebody in my network at the time was like I think you should apply. And I was like Snapchat, 10 companies from across the world, like what are the chances? But I was like you know what, no harm, I'll do do it.
Speaker 3:And so I had a series of interviews with them and in the final interview, there was this one guy who had worked in media his entire life, worked in Snapchat. At the time they were creating a similar product and he's like we have literally so many resources and we still haven't been able to crack it. And it's unbelievable that you guys have been able to crack this in like a shoestring of a budget. And so that was again like a lot of validation, like OK, it's required. This is technically like something that others who have been in the industry can also see the value in, and we're like, okay, cool, this is great. And so we actually got into the accelerator. We were one of nine companies to get in. Congrats, so thank you. So that was also a massive validation and stamp of approval that this is required and yeah, it's been good.
Speaker 1:This isn't required and yeah it's been good, so I'd definitely see potentially one of these platforms eventually acquiring you. But what's your stance on acquisitions versus building this business up?
Speaker 3:acquisitions versus building this business up.
Speaker 3:Um, I think when you have such a big vision, sometimes you don't necessarily have all the resources to be get your product in the hands of everyone you kind of want to right like I definitely cannot get involved with just my resources or our resources in the hands of, like literally everyone, unless we get help from somebody who is very much in the media industry or like someone in the tech industry who has done this before and built and grown a consumer company. So, whether it's like a VC, whether it's a media company with like multiple channels that would go involved and like instantly have like so much you know content yeah, or just have the capacity to spread the word really fast about us, like I think it's important to take your startup from A to B, but you do need help to take it from, like, a certain place to where you wanted to go sorry, yeah, yeah, I'm asking because there are there's split opinions.
Speaker 1:People don't want to hear about getting acquired, you know. They want to be at the helm of whatever that's going to become.
Speaker 3:I mean it it's not necessarily about acquisition right. It could be like a stake in the company. Like that's also fine, yeah, but basically need help. Yeah, so, speaking of what's your biggest challenge now when it comes to growth, when it comes to growth, just finding the right people who want the product and basically getting in front of as many people as possible so basically reach yeah and that's how are you tackling that?
Speaker 1:because again, you are building something that's. You know you need a certain level of adoption and size, especially that your revenue model. Will it be advertising?
Speaker 3:yes, so actually like in a few weeks from now, uh, different people will get different variants, um, some people will just see ads, some people will have like a premium, you know like subscribe. So we're just testing out different models and whatever clicks. We'll continue with that okay, right, so there's.
Speaker 1:There's a potential of a premium of subscription, kind of like a freemium model.
Speaker 3:So if you don't want to see ads and if you want access to like certain features like text to speech, where you can listen literally listen to the articles instead of actually having to read, then yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Um so, how did you? How did you gang up with your current co-founder? What's the story there? How did you decide to partner up?
Speaker 3:um, literally that conversation about vision and what we wanted to do in life, and so really about impact, and then that one startup led to this startup and how.
Speaker 1:How does it work for you? I know well quite a few founders that were co-founders that are remote, so you work remote our entire team is remote yeah, but you and your co-founder, yeah. So you're, you're remote. How does that work in terms of working on strategy, in terms of workshops, in terms of is it? Do you have some sort of schedule? Do you also overlap? Is it? Is she on a different time zone, I suppose?
Speaker 3:um no, I feel like everybody different time zones, but like some of our team is actually in India as well and so everybody in India starts later. So we had we had two members in.
Speaker 1:India and they would start late. And I'm like, are you sure I don't want to like start and we'll just overlap a bit, like no, I'll start at 12 and I'll finish at 9.
Speaker 3:I'm like that's a bit late yeah, but like they tend to start later anyway, and I am an early riser, so I literally start work at 6 30 and so there's a ton of overlap 6, 30 I just feel like I'm most productive then, like when I start early and like at the same time, and like so many people are working together. It's also important for, like you know, if somebody is asking a question, I need to be available like quick decisions, quick turnaround.
Speaker 3:So if I start at, my like 10, then half the day is gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah true, but 6.30. I work from home. That makes it better.
Speaker 1:yeah, it does make it better, but I feel that at six well, I mean at 6, 30 I'm, I'm in the gym, but I feel that if I that wouldn't happen, I would just be super sleepy at the time to start um opening the computer and looking, just having information. But I mean, if you're early, but I suppose you're also, you know, are you, are you basically working until late at night or you take your, you know, shut computer off at eight and six, whatever, and even eight I said eight that that would mean 14 hours, oh my god, so you do, but you do close and have time for yourself and for family and all of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so initially when we started like you I mean like we, like Shannon and I we literally had to be very much hands-on on certain, on literally everything right, and so my days were incredibly long. But thankfully our team has really, like you know, gotten used to like taking charge of different things, so that's helped a lot, and I think even like literally closing my laptop for a few hours just makes so much of a difference when it comes to, like, my mental sanity. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Because we are a media startup right Like we have notifications going out like different hours of the day and it is impossible to. Sometimes even I look at my phone and I'm like seeing Slack messages, like no matter what time of the day it is and it gets too much. So you're like, at least for me, I really need to shut down the computer, like in the evening, and just have some hours without a screen in front of me, like the laptop in front of me.
Speaker 1:You know that's been a recurring team here at Misfit Founders today while recording with founders. All three conversations so far have had a segment around decompressing and taking space to recharge and take a step back and maybe think of things holistically and not be, yeah, deep into into your computer and and doing stuff because we like to do that. We're like busy bees. As founders, we always fill our time up with a lot of stuff yeah, um and. Fill our time up with a lot of stuff. Yeah, and I'm curious how big is your team?
Speaker 3:We're about nine people.
Speaker 1:Nine people. Okay, that's quite a bit, and you have, do you have? Do you have In terms of? Is there a split in terms of marketing and development?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we have a development team, editorial and like barely anybody in marketing.
Speaker 1:but yes, I suppose you're kind of like on that journey of getting people and expanding. Yes, how do you and your co-founder split your roles and responsibilities?
Speaker 3:uh, when it comes to product, we're both very closely linked. But, like the other things that you know, she, for example, looks over like um, like aso, seo, all of that stuff and like for me it's like more social media, for even content, like sometimes it's more about like the hours of the day that she looks at, or like I look at like the morning or evening or whatever. So it really depends, and I think, initially, when you're a small team, like there's just so many things that you just have to constantly do that and it's a big overlap.
Speaker 3:It is it is an overlap. At the same time, it's like sometimes you're literally like tasked with things that you've never done before, you or the other person right, like it's almost like on a daily basis, as a founder, and so, um, yeah, it's really just about like, who has the bandwidth to take on more?
Speaker 1:whoever is the unlucky one from sit on the next new task. And you're speaking about organic, like going out and doing stuff and being proactive and doing organic initiatives, because you're just starting up and you're a startup and so on. What are some of the actually before us? That just just a parenthesis here um. Are you funded now? Do you have? Um, what stage are you in the funding?
Speaker 3:so we got a pre-seed from snapchat and then some angels, and then we'll be raising a more solid round in a few months solid.
Speaker 1:Solid as in VC or still seed. And I'm asking with a purpose because I'm part of an angel investor syndicate. So if you want I can introduce you to people there and pitch to the angel investors in the syndicate that I'm part of, but it's angel investors, it's EIS and SEIS, not VC, as in not the VC and pitch to the angel investors in the syndicate that I'm part of, but it's angel investors, it's EIS and SEIS, not VC, as in not the VC level Got it From our like.
Speaker 3:when it comes to angels and VCs, they're completely like different pros and cons. Right Like in terms of pros, like angels, even though they might have smaller checks, sometimes they literally go out of their way to help you with their own kind of like, you know, with their own kind of like talents or skills or networks. Vcs we really heard like different things from different people. Sometimes they're very proactive or sometimes they just like take my money and don't call me. So it really depends.
Speaker 1:You just need to figure out what you want from both ends because, again, yes, there are vcs that are a lot more involved, but also with certain terms. Make you just agree on terms and so on, and and not just take money from from a vc that yeah, will treat, treat you like yet another number in their portfolio, portfolio and so on, but it really depends on the value that they bring right.
Speaker 3:Like, yes, the money, but apart from that, like, can you help us in certain things, like whether it's about content or growth, or literally, like so many things out there?
Speaker 1:yeah us, yes, you know, and the one thing that I realized is well, growing our company is. There's such a you never see the next, the next mountain, after this one, right, you climb a mountain. You climb a mountain and say, oh, I'm gonna set up, if I set up this team and I was so amazing, I don't need anything else after that. And then you reach the top and you realize oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Even with marketing, like in the early days, I was thinking oh, if we have someone that's in paid advertising and a content writer, we are golden. And as soon as we hired those people and we started piling work, we realized they started asking well, I need this person, I need this person to help me with that it's a never-ending it is, and the funny thing is actually the most unfortunate difficult part about being a startup is that you really there's no template.
Speaker 3:You really can't like copy paste a growth strategy that worked for somebody else that can work for you. Like it just doesn't happen. You really need to find your particular growth strategy yourself, and this only happens through experimentation yeah and pivoting. You have to pivot so much like. We made a lot of dumb mistakes initially, but like now it's you always learn from your mistakes. So we're learning.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're in that, in that growth and kind of like acceleration stage, you're looking for money. Good to know, I forgot the question that I just asked Funding.
Speaker 3:Before funding About me yes, to know um I forgot the question that I just asked before funding.
Speaker 1:Before funding about me.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was getting to me. Yeah, I think so, I think you look really tired, do I?
Speaker 1:oh, I'm not really not many podcasts no, no, no, but also that's also my a bit more you know, laid back, I, I I'm not very. Oh, let me ask you these, these, these questions, and I, as you probably saw, it's very laid back, so it's not like um, but no, I, I said before saying the well, actually, because I was curious whether you have funding um, because I can introduce you to angel investors. I asked a question, but I completely forgot what the question was. It must have been not that important Growth.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, I asked you about the organic growth, which seems like you're tackling this part, um, and that's what you're focused on, um, what are some of the initiatives that you so? You clearly you're here on this podcast right today and I suppose you're doing more podcasts like this um, but what are some of the other things that that you and your team are focusing on right now?
Speaker 3:So I think one of the biggest things that's really helped us is just partnerships, and so one of our best partnerships has been with IndieHackers, where we literally were on their newsletter twice a week and so all of the news on all of the tech news that's on their newsletter comes from volve, so anybody who clicks on the link gets directed to like our, our web version, which is basically mimicking our actual app. So we get a lot of leads from there, um, and obviously like a lot of like synergistic, you know, like partnerships or collabs with podcasters, newsletter writers, so that we feature each other and then we get exposed in front of like different networks. That's one Another thing we're working on is obviously like SEO and like ASO. That's constantly like building and getting us in front of like the right people who are looking for us and, yeah, there's just so much way by seo, um, are you referring to to your product, to your website? Or do you have?
Speaker 1:um.
Speaker 3:Do you create like articles as well, and so we have like about 100 articles pushed on wall every day, like 100 snippets, and so so optimizing those, yes, okay so, basically, we have so much content, whether you're looking for literally like anything from bitcoin to taylor, swift, like we have everything, and so we want to rank higher when people are looking for any kind of like news, so that they get directed to us as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that's basically the excerpt of other publications and all of this stuff that you're optimizing. I don't want to undermine what you're doing because it sounds like just an excerpt, but I suppose you put a lot of energy in.
Speaker 3:So, when you think about a newsletter, they're literally going to different sources, pulling together information and writing their own newsletter. Right, because no newsletter writer has journalists everywhere in the world. Think of us as another newsletter where we're basically pulling in content. The content doesn't necessarily need to be from that one particular source, but we basically link you out to a source that we think would give you most value to be directed to. So the news could have, like you know, different things from multiple places and then we link you out to one which we think would give you most value. Or or it could also be about, like you know, elon Musk's hilarious tweet that has the whole Twitter community debating and that content is being captured from, like, multiple newsletters and newspapers or whatever publishers, and then you're being linked out to Elon Musk's tweet publishers, and then you're being linked out to Elon Musk's tweet.
Speaker 1:So, and is this all stuff? It sounds like it does take a while to kind of like redact and create these um, especially nowadays nine seconds.
Speaker 3:You have to be a wizard to put together an excerpt that's engaging and tells the actual informative and tells the story does that take a lot of time so initially we put in a lot of effort and this is like even before ai when we're just like trying to figure out, like okay, what are the crucial things we need to include, and so obviously, with ai, it just completely changed the game in terms of like how easy it is to publish content and like create those perfect, crisp summaries. But then again we always have an editorial team who's overlooking and making sure the content is fine, because you can't completely rely on AI, especially when it comes to like news or something where you're informing people. You can't say anything wrong.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, editorial team is very important in that sense too okay so, but I suppose that cuts a bit of the time. This is one of the things that I found as well, as I started using ai in some of the content that we were doing at jigsaw at our company and so on. Um, it just the the, the hardest thing for me. I don't know about you, but the hardest thing for me is to start when you're on a blank piece of paper. I agree, and you're like okay, how do I start? I agree.
Speaker 1:So if you have that starting point, then I personally feel like editing it and making sure that it's correct is lower effort and things get faster.
Speaker 1:Okay, now I know your secret on how you're putting all of that content online out there. Okay, now I know your secret. Is your secret on how you're putting all of that content, uh, online out there? Um, awesome, um. Well, apart from your product, which is quite fascinating, and apart from um, doing all of these organic content and, by the way, with the organic content, that sounds quite time consuming for you. Is it just yourself and your co-founder that are doing these pr pieces of work? Does it take you a lot of time, just like? I mean, you're spending an?
Speaker 3:hour in something on a podcast here I mean it's important, right like there's no point making a fabulous product if you're not getting the right distribution and being in front of the people who want to use that product. So I think this is equally important look you're here.
Speaker 1:You spend an hour and a half. I can't guarantee you any return of investment, right, you know? Um? This show will be distributed in snippets as well. There's gonna be a lot of your although you hate social media, there's gonna be a lot of the snippets out of um this conversation on social media. You're gonna have the edit, so I'm gonna send you the edit so you can check what you want in.
Speaker 1:That's all good, um, so that's you know. There probably gonna be some brand exposure and kind of like founder brand building there, but again, not that much roi. Um, um, fast ro, roi at least. And people would argue well, priyanka, that hour and a half you could have spent it in this way and you would have gotten faster ROI. So this is what surprises me. With a new team that's starting marketing that takes on organic growth and pr stuff you know I five high-fived you earlier I'm like yay, I love um, what are you doing with organic content? Um, but it's a tough cookie to crack. In a sense it starting with this because it's a long-winded game.
Speaker 3:I understand, but at the same time, like you know, the funny thing is like, had we started with paid ads right from the get-go, we would have never understood who our customer is. We would have realized, okay, people actually hate our product because they're all leaving the app. And we would have never realized that they're leaving the app because we're looking at the wrong customer right. Because if you're just focused on advertising on Instagram or TikTok, those people will leave because it's not for them. And so it's only when you go through these organic things initially, or like early on in the journey, you realize who is actually resonating with the product.
Speaker 3:And when you're talking to like different people, they actually spark like different ideas in you too. Like recently I met this woman and she was talking about the app and she was like you know, it's amazing for people with adhd, like can I like post it on like the website for, like our website for adhd and everybody else? And I was like why? And she's like it's so short and snappy, it's perfect for people with ADHD. And I was like I had no idea 100%.
Speaker 3:I can tell you, as someone undiagnosed um ADD individual, I can tell you that I just can't read stuff or watch things that are very lengthy exactly audity, I'm making a podcast that's an hour and a half, but I can't watch podcasts that are an hour an hour and a half, but I can't watch podcasts that are an hour, an hour and a half or two, so that's the irony right there, exactly, but like it's only initially, when this is the only time where you really have to like explore how people are reacting, what is working and be so closely in touch with who is using your product or like what they're saying. When you reach like after this it's more about like OK, we know what works, we know who it works for. Now we can like start to you know, replicate that, to like get that exponential growth. But that initial phase of organic is very important. At least that's what we think.
Speaker 1:Going back to your founder journey. Founder journey is this is this your um, the, the startup that you started that you took the furthest so far? Did you had anything um prior to? You know these two ventures with your current co-founder? Are you coming from professional background?
Speaker 3:what's your story finance?
Speaker 1:finance. Okay, and this is your kind of like your first startup. That gets to a certain point where you're thinking, oh my god, what am I doing?
Speaker 3:it's getting serious. It is, I mean, honestly. When I think about the founder journey, I literally have this one analogy where you're basically getting on a roller coaster, you have your seat belt on and you're gonna go up and you're gonna be like, wow, this is amazing. And then, right after, you're gonna like, go really like you know, fall and you're screaming.
Speaker 2:But it's okay, you have your seat belt on and you're gonna ride it out.
Speaker 1:So at what stage did you realize that? Because I feel like I've been. I've been a founder since I was 17 and I had a very naive mentality until my 30s. I always thought that because I couldn't make anything stick.
Speaker 1:I always thought that entrepreneurship is once you reach a point, then you're good, right, it's just tumultuous in the early days but then you're safe and you're good, and your feelings and your stress levels and your financial well-being it's gonna be here and it was my 30s, after jigsaw my, which is my first successful business that I realized that it never goes away from this yeah, when did you?
Speaker 3:realize that very early on actually, because I feel like the initial days are kind of like the hardest because you're just for, you're just like tasked with so many challenges. Like everybody asks you this question, like, yeah, but what about that? Have you thought about that? And then if you sit down and think about like every possible problem, you're never going to start because there's just so many problems that are coming, you know, and you have no idea how to tackle them. But once you actually start, and you start like figuring out like what every question mark is, then you kind of like then you just have to keep going. It's literally just stamina. That's very. When did you start your business?
Speaker 1:what year? Uh, it's been like end of 2020, now no, 2020. That is very wise words for um, for someone that's been in business for less than four years. Um, probably, yeah, um, I feel that I wasn't at that stage of of talking so coherent um around the founder journey when I was, you know, four, four years on, but I suppose your finance career, um, experience kind of like, contributes to a certain level of maturity. Did it? Did it, did it translate in your leadership style or anything? Um?
Speaker 3:you know, the funny thing is I I actually thought I was more quantitative than qualitative early on, and then it was one of my bosses who actually told me, like you know, it's kind of the other way around, and at that time I was literally writing um, like these thought pieces that would go like I was working in this major bank and I was writing these thought pieces on behalf of the team that would go out to clients worldwide under somebody else's name. So I was actually like doing all the analysis, like writing the story and that writing skill has actually really translated very well but also the analytical things and like how to make something so complex, make it sound easy, or like you know just how to get people's attention in terms of what you're saying and just make it easy for them to understand.
Speaker 1:I think that was very something that really that seems like well, we were. I was asking earlier oh it might. It must take you a ton of time to create those experts and so on, but it sounds like you were, you were born for, for um, your business here I hope so um, so it does.
Speaker 1:It does sound like because you grew up in that and you developed those skills in your finance career that you're able to make it not feel so complex for yourself. Because when I heard this, I'm like me sitting down and just summarizing and, oh my god, that is my worst, my worst nightmare. We sit and and um spend on eternity figuring out the thumbnail title like text for for the podcast. So I can only imagine going through all of this. Ai helps, but I think your skills in that area helps as well. Thank you.
Speaker 3:I think always what's really helpful is to think from your consumer's point of view. Like literally, just put yourself on the other side and be like if this was the headline, would I listen to it, yes or no? It's so simple, because even for us the article might be phenomenal, like extremely insightful, but if the headline sucks, no one's going to read it. And sometimes just crafting the right headline is just so important that you just really need to put yourself in the reader's shoes and be like if I read this, would I read the second line, yes or no? And then just call it a day so you can actually judge how people would read by just literally thinking from their shoes.
Speaker 1:I think that applies to anything, anything yeah so any founder should probably make sure that that is. How does my consumer want or sees this? How do they think about their problem?
Speaker 3:or even in terms of marketing right, like what is, what are you saying and how is that going to sit with them, or is it going to, like, make them feel anything?
Speaker 3:well, you must be writing all of your landing pages, for you know, actually, I realized recently that our landing page needs changes because, as a founder, you know when you're so in your business, you kind of forget the absolute basics of it, like the you somehow, you know you want to make it sound like visionary, you want to make it sound cool, and so you try to get all fancy but like that's all fluff, yeah, and you get lost in the fluff, you know, and so just like taking a step back and being like, okay, no, this is what I do in simple words, and we're going to stick with the simple words, no matter if it sounds like quite literal, that's actually what's necessary and that's what I'm working on at the moment and that that requires a level of, I would say, maturity and abstraction, in a sense, like one you how, this is us and then write the most convoluted because because I know I've been there and I think I'm still a bit there, nikki, my partner always says you talk too bureaucratic and you write these taglines way too complex, and so on Because I'm like, oh, this is what I want to convey to you, but it should be the reverse.
Speaker 1:This is how I relate.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:This is how I want you to relate to this Exactly. Not. This is what I want me to convey to you in a sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one quick tip for founders actually who's listening and working on landing pages? There's this one tip by Matt Lerner and he basically said that if you add three words before the first line of your website, it should make sense. The three words are now you can. So you literally open your website. You add now you can before that line. Does it make sense, yes or no?
Speaker 1:And that's your easy. Like you know, like check mark done and yours should be now, you can burn down your social media accounts that's uh, we've actually, so that's what I'm fixing right now.
Speaker 3:Um, right now, so after we realized that our target consumer was somebody who really doesn't care for social media, so we kind of like changed the branding and the taglines to make it the anti-social media app, right, and so it sounds cool. It's like, what do you mean? Like, what's that?
Speaker 1:But what is it?
Speaker 3:Exactly, and so we really have to like okay, dial it down and be like it is an app that gives you you know, it's a nine second articles app for high performing individuals like, literally simple.
Speaker 1:so no, but what is it? What is your current tagline on the?
Speaker 3:website. Oh, that's what I mean. Like it starts with, like the anti-social media app the anti-social media.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you changed it so that's if you, if you go on a website right now, that's what it says, but working on the entire change yeah I think it would be great at one point to also get your co-founder on on the show and see her perspective on on how things have evolved and get the the gossips from her and how she gets along with you. Although you didn't really want it to reveal that much, I tried to poke at how you work with your co-founder.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I think.
Speaker 1:You expanded on the theme, but I'll give it a pass.
Speaker 3:So, going to the co-founder, I think, when you know you're talking about, like working with your friend, I think one thing that's really interesting, or one thing that's crucial and beneficial, is the fact that you already trust this person right, like she's already your best friend. So even if you're not there, that person, you can rely on that person to, like you know, continue on and like work on whatever in the best way possible. So I think that has been a blessing and, in terms of working like, yeah, I think that works for us. So it's.
Speaker 1:It's it's commendable because I my co-founder was my life partner. Completely different dynamics, right um like we're at home together yeah, and that's a lot and it is a lot. But in the same time it's like maybe I'll drop my point and not insist because I don't want to upset her just now, or her the other way around, and it kind of made us a bit more mild and maybe not that fiery at times and I'm not talking about her, I'm the fiery one um and it was a positive yeah, because I've never had a, I've never lasted with any other co-founder.
Speaker 1:Um and one didn't choose the right co-founders because we didn't really test things out, and so on. But two we would get in arguments about a variety of things yeah with nikki was different, because she was my life partner and so on.
Speaker 1:I did have a friend that I started a business with and we kind of got into a couple of arguments and it didn't. We kind of like fizzled out our friendship a bit. So that's what I'm saying, like it. You know, um, it also takes guts to start a business with, with your friend and but I I guess, if you know the dynamic of how you work, um, and how you interact and communicate with each other, it's not that risky thing even if you think about it in terms of like yes, you are going to get into arguments.
Speaker 3:Like any friendship, you do get into arguments true so it doesn't necessarily have to be like oh, we argue, this is the end. You can have your differences and it's okay, um. But also what's really special is the fact that, like, we certain times have very, very different ways of doing things or ways that we want to do things, but they're very much aligned in terms of, like, the big picture vision. So I think that's very crucial and that's something that's really benefited like, something we've benefited from, because, like yes, she might say let's do that instead, and I'm like sure. Or I say you know, like let's do this instead. Like yes, sure. Or I say you know, like let's do this instead. Like yes, we may have like a debate or a fight or whatever, but ultimately, like that's where we're going and we both know like that's where we're working towards.
Speaker 1:So I think a north star is is always important yeah, it helps guide you. There will always be situations where it's like, well, both of us are right, what do we do here? And then you just have to figure it out. But again.
Speaker 3:In that situation too, I feel like everything literally just boils to experimentation. And I think this is something that we both can say right, because earlier I would be like no, it's my way, or she would be like no, it's my way, or she would be like no, it's my way. But then later on we're like okay, cool, you think this, I think this, let's just try both things, see what works. Or, like you know, and everything in a startup is experimentation and pivoting, literally everything. If you don't experiment and pivot, you're doing something wrong yes, true, um had a.
Speaker 1:I was just stating a thing and I've actually mentioned this um about um earlier compound uh, or die, experiment or die, in a sense.
Speaker 3:Basically yeah, and we realized that very late. That was one of our like fundamental mistakes that we made early on you're trying to be too like very fixated on what we're doing, but not really like listening and pivoting quickly enough, like everything needed to be perfect. You know, like we're both very much like this needs to look great and feel amazing and the experience needs to be amazing, and like we were so fixated on like the the look and feel of it that sometimes you didn't realize that is this really something that the user wants?
Speaker 1:so I think that was one of our critical mistakes initially but, lucky you, you've kind of came to the realization that that's missing, because a lot of founders don't and they wind up burying their businesses because of that lack of um of awareness. But hey, this is why we're here, so that people like yourself can come over and and reveal the the secrets of their um, of their trade, um. And, as you said, there's no blueprint there's definitely not.
Speaker 1:But all all that we can do is share our stories. Some people will resonate with certain pieces of information that you shared here today and that's all that matters. In the sense you've, by being here today, you've impacted positively a lot of founders in the future. I love that positively. A lot of founders in the future.
Speaker 2:I'll make sure to distribute a lot of your words to the wider community.
Speaker 1:I usually finish with three flash questions. One what's a quote that you live by?
Speaker 3:Something that comes in like literally comes to my head, like very often, is that if you don't have time to do it properly the first time, you're never going to have time to do it properly the second time. So it's like if you're not going to pay attention now and just finish the task, well, because you don't have time, you're never going to have time to do it again. Time to do it again. So it could be something for you know, as simple as like cleaning, to working on something that you are for your business to like literally anything. So when.
Speaker 3:I'm doing something. I'm just doing it something like very hastily, I'm just like wait. I'm not gonna try to do this again. Let me just do it properly now.
Speaker 1:So it also becomes like a standard in a sense. If you always do things half-baked, it becomes the norm and half-baked type of stuff become your norm. I feel that's the inclination usually. Thank you, second question a book that you enjoy. For founders or just in general your choice, either for professional or your personal uh, I'll say both for founders is currently what I'm reading.
Speaker 3:It's literally the example I gave you earlier about the. Now you can uh, it's called growth levers by matt learner. Um, I think it's really insightful. Very short book but extremely insightful. You can literally like read a line, pause, think about your startup and like be like, oh, that's great, or I'm doing something really wrong.
Speaker 1:So I think that was really good and insightful you have add by any chance, because that's how I read books no, but this book particularly, I mean I really think I do actually i'm'm not joking, I see like random content.
Speaker 3:I'm like that sounds like me, I think I have ADHD, but yeah, that's for you know like more work focused. But in general I don't really read much fiction. I read mainly like nonfiction. I love any books that are related to psychology. I love to know how people think and a lot of the books by Robert Greene are really insightful to me and interesting. So just literally like anything from power to like laws of human nature or to anything like that is something that is super insightful and interesting to me that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Do you have a background? Did you study anything?
Speaker 3:I actually didn't, but I love how people think. I want to know how people think that's a good, that's a good interest to have when you're selling stuff to people and and it's really funny because or people's story, right Like it's how people think why they did a certain thing, and then it's also people's story. So, even when it comes to films, I love films that are inspired by true stories, or films where it's like a biopic and you kind of see that person's journey and automatically like you.
Speaker 3:Just, you just really value them so much more and it's like, wow, you did all of this thing so yeah a very valuable contribution to the Misfit Founders library of books.
Speaker 1:I'm probably going to do some short videos of all of the answers to these questions, like a collage of all of the answers of founders. Last question Good habit that you advocate for.
Speaker 3:Taking care of yourself mentally, physically, so little things like shutting off your laptop, you know, just going to the gym, making like that time for yourself. Because if you're not taking care of yourself mentally and physically, I feel like if I'm not in a good space mentally, I I'm kind of like reacting to life. I'm not living life, or even when it comes to work, like you're just reacting to things. It's like, okay, fine, like you know, this happened. You're just like hastily doing something. But if you take that time out to take care of yourself, I feel like you also have that mental capacity to like think and, you know, just do better again, great contributions.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. I'll take some of that as well um very much needed very often. Um right, I need to give you a gift, so you're getting um a coin from misfit founders. Thank you it has your number, which is 33, which is the number of the guest. No I've recorded three podcasts in summer. Oh my god, maybe maybe you're right, maybe I I do look tired. I'm joking, I don't look that tired I'm. I hope not. I don't know. I might need to photoshop myself and no, no that's so nice.
Speaker 3:Thank you, this is great.
Speaker 1:This is the least I can do. As I mentioned, every single podcast, an hour or two. I find it as a wealth of inspiration for other founders. This is a humongous amount of content that I'll be able to put out there, not just in the long-form podcast, that I'll be able to put out there, not just in the long-form podcast, but for people who may or may not have ADD, that can consume in short form on the platforms that you don't like, which is TikTok and others.
Speaker 3:Thank, you Again. I don't not like them.
Speaker 1:I know I'm just poking.
Speaker 3:But yeah, thank you so much for having me. This has been a really cool chat.
Speaker 1:I'm glad and I hope I didn't look too tired. Awesome, that's it, thank you, thank you.
